A few shots of V3

[Area 10]

I bought my Bullet 14v2 for exactly those kinds of downbreezer conditions and I don't regret it. But a board that is also very effective in light downwind is the Naish 14 V2 Glide (27.25" wide). That's a much cheaper option if you can find one used. It's less refined than the Bullet 14v2, and so harder to ride, but it is surprisingly fast in light downwind.

[Eagle]

Thx for your input PB and A10.

Looking at how long the glides where using the M-14 off my vid realized that the glides were actually reasonably long in that windspeed.  It felt much harder at the time than it looks on the vid.  The board planed at take-off for about 10 sec then stayed on glide for over a minute at a time with just maintenance pulls > so not bad really.

Comparatively, went out today on the 14V2 after testing the 17.4 > and the single concave and panel vee is the secret sauce of both these Bullets. The concave generates a ton of lift when accelerating then the panel vee plants down the tail as you plane across a swell.  Of course on the 17.4 it is smooth as silk and composed vs the sporty agile 14V2.

The production 17.4 at 26.6" was not a problem to balance on in 15 kts gusts to 20.  It was a bear though to paddle upwind but much better than the F16.  The nose rocker of the 17.4 is similar to the M14 so this is good - it feels just right.

The steering is a must to control the nose direction on both the F16 and 17.4.  The 17.4 length fit very comfortably in the wind swell generated and it definitely could easily handle more breeze in complete control.  Steering DW was fast and easy and lengthens the distance of every glide a lot.

If we can get a good deal later in the summer we will buy the 17.4 demo board we tested - that is if we can make space for it.  The F16 is suited to bomber winds 30+ steep and deep short interval > and the Bullet 17.4 suited for basically everything else.

Paddled later with 2 other locals on 14V2s and a high rated sponsored rider using his old Bark Expedition. He simply took off like a rocket leaving us older guys far far behind.  So much fun nevertheless as we are just happy to get out and spend an afternoon with all our DW crew.   

[PonoBill]

I think the 17.4 V1 is Mark's best board, followed closely by the F16 and the Ku Nalu.

[Eagle]

I think you are right PB - both the F16 and Bullet 17.4 are excellent boards.  For those considering these boards MR comments about the pros and cons in this old video -

[Eagle]

Well just got back from a longer DW run in about 15 kts with gusts to 20 and was on the demo Bullet 17.4 production again.  Went upwind crosswind and DW in full whitecaps and the board performed excellent - good control in every direction.  The steering helped a lot traversing the wind and waves and saves a lot of paddle effort when you need to do this for long stretches.  This board really needs 15 as the bare minimum and starts to go much better at 20.  At 25-30 would expect the board to be in its power band.

The steering worked a charm and allows you to get on the adjacent swell immediately without any paddle effort.  You can easily paddle across waves with good control.  Can see using this board on 20-30+ mile runs where you can save a ton of energy.  Used low output and was not trying to push and was able to pull from the 14s.  Our most experienced was hammering at full power on a F16 and he went quite a bit faster than me.  My objective for this longer run was to just stay relaxed dry and get used to the steering across waves.  Everything worked well and was able to luckily finish the run still fresh and dry.

14 boards are more fun in that you can plane and pound more - but this has a much easier more refined faster glide.  Did get the board to plane in the low windspeed but it did take more effort due to the extra waterline and weight.  Can see that it takes a certain technique to plane consistently but it should be possible with more practice.  The extra weight carrying was ok with the DCC layup and the paddle loops are a must to use.

This time was out with 10 and the DW crew totals around 15 now with a couple more new riders to join in a week or 2.  So much fun when all of us have the same goal in mind -> get out on the water to have a bit of fun then chillax later chatting over beers.

If the numbers work can see adding this to the quiver.   

[headmount]

Did a short DW run to Kanaha the other day with Jimmy and some gal who weighed about 100 lbs.  JL had shaped her a 25" by 14' and she flew on the thing in light air.  But his production 14' model is wider.  Jimmy does very well on it, finishing close behind guys like me on an unlimited.  We're both the same age but he's definitely stronger.

Really dig seeing shapers out there riding their gear.  Today I went longboard SUS with him on south shore.  We had a rising swell with little wind.  His boards were great for nose riding and he was up on the front on almost every wave tho he's just taking off here.

[covesurfer]

Spent two solid years riding two different F-16's. First, the Chinese-made, heavier, hollow, autoclaved board. Super stiff, but mine was on the heavier side at around 32 - 34 lbs. I believe it was considered the F16 V2 and it was a very stable, good surfing board. But definitely on the heavier side. Getting the board going was a lot of work, but it held onto it's speed and it was pretty user-friendly as long as it was windy.

A year ago, in May 2014, I sold the Chinese F16 and bought a Maui-built, hollow, light layup F16, V3. This board was 26" wide and weighed just 27 lbs. It was much easier to accel this board with the paddle and it surfed extremely well. When conditions were lined up and big, it was like riding a giant surfboard and by that I mean that I had very good control with nothing but foot steering using the rails and foot pressure. It was also possible to precisely trim the board and the feedback was great.  I loved my F16 and, when conditions were right, with bigger winds and swell, I had some really good race results on the F16, even when other guys were on the 17's.

The downside of the 16 was that the extreme nose rocker caused the board to push a lot of water in less than nuking wind conditions, slowing it down. Also, the board would really get knocked around by cross chop. Crossing the Pailolo Channel last Spring on a very big day, I had fall after fall after fall when cross chop would hit the nose and just knock the board on it's edge or even sideways. Falling is obviously not fast and eventually I got pretty good at staying on top of the 16. But cross chop was always a threat.

A little more than a month ago, I sold the lightweight F 16 and got the 17 4 Bullet V1. It's light layup, hollow and Maui-built. Weighs in at about 28 lbs. Cross chop does not upset this board. When it gets on it's edge, you can save it. It is very fast on the bumps and going across the grain. And, yes, it definitely glides longer. Although I've only had it out in bigger conditions a couple of times now, maybe four or five runs, it does fantastically but it is true that you have to move around on it and the sooner you get back on the board, the better. The longer length gives it a lot of stability and walking up and down the board is actually really fun.

So, I think I'm pretty much echoing what was said in the MR video above, but I'm trying to add that the V1 Bullet also kicks ass in bigger conditions. It is faster than the F16 too. On a really huge day, it would be fun to still have the F16 but I couldn't afford to keep it. I'm pretty sure there's days I'd want it though. That said, once you really get used to the 17 4 Bullet, I think it is, overall, far superior for almost any open ocean paddling conditions. SIC really has a winner with the V1 Bullet, and in a light layup, it is amazing. The 16 is also a great ride and when you get used to it, you can make up for some of it's vulnerabilities. Both great boards and, depending on your local conditions, either could be a great choice.

[Eagle]

So it sounds like Jimmy is a guy that can make a few special one-offs and he should maybe consider another production board.  Here in Vancouver the draw is smaller general conditions for the mass paddlers -> as most do not ever actively seek max wind and waves like our little crew.

I think if he made that 14x26.5" board he would sell a load as the current board of choice here is the Bullet 14V2.  Personally I like the 14V1 better for DW as it is easier when winds get around 25 kts and is in between the 14V2 and M-14.  If Jimmy made that board with his Signature I-Beam or went carbon -> SIC would have a direct competitor.  From our limited average Joe use -> we would want Mark's concave to panel vee tail and 14V1 rocker for speed - and Jimmy's pointy nose and trapezoid upper deck and volume for stability.

The F16 with its large upturned nose is something we find hard to deal with upwind and on flat -> in side wind and side slop it also is more work.  Often when we are gliding and trying to plane we get huge amounts of pressure and waves hitting the nose from the side -> the best board to date for this is the M-14 by far.  It is near unaffected by side action unlike the 14V2 nose -> and this makes the M-14 special and so comfortable to ride in rough conditions.  The Bullet 17.4 is also like this and we really like that lower pointy nose aspect riding across waves to pick up enough speed to plane.

This vid showcases the 2015 boards for others interested -> and the Bullet 14V2 and 17.4 are highlighted -

[Blue crab]

Cove, Great review of the 17 bullet V1. When I get back to Maui, I can't wait to find a demo & give it a shot. For what its worth, the F16 V3 is the most fun board I've used in the Gorge on a standard >25 mph day.  There seems to be a prevailing dogma that longer boards won't do well in the Gorge / Puget Sound's short period, high wind conditions. Many people seem to be using Javelins / V2s etc these days (incredibly fun boards for sure).  However, I find myself getting much faster & longer glides on the F16 than any 14 foot board. I also agree that it is plenty surfy and very easy to foot steer. 

The side chop is definitely an issue at times, particularly during lulls between glides. I also think the board also might not work for hardcore racers because it is a slug in anything other than downwind conditions (i.e. the last 1/2 mile of the Viento which is often choppy and unkempt) and truly sucks in flats. However, if the goal is to connect glide after glide during the most fun sections of the run, then the F16 is a beast.   At some level, I don't care how the board performs in crappy side chop because those conditions will be painful, regardless of the board.

Eagle, where do you downwind in Vancouver? A few Seattle friend & I have been considering a trip to downwind Howe Sound later this summer.  I've seen it absolutely ripping on the way home from Whistler & am curious to say the least.

[covesurfer]

Hey Blue! Thanks for the kind words on the review. I love both of those boards and over here on Maui, either can be a pretty good choice. It's always the ocean here and it's always moving, even on so-called calm days. It's rough and the stability available from the SIC boards just works.

In the Gorge, even when I was still there a few years ago, the trend was heavily in favor of using racing boards. It wasn't just the short period, it was the variability of conditions over the course of a single run. If you can make a race board surf in the good stuff, and take advantage of it's design and reduced weight for ease of paddling and speed in the areas where the wind and waves don't cooperate so much, you're going to be faster than on a downwind board. I'm especially thinking of the stretch between the Split Rocks, west of Swell City on the OR side, down to Wells Island and then again from the upwind side of the Hook to the end of the run, which, even on a good day, are areas where a board like the F-16 is, as you describe, a slug.

You will get longer glides on a 16 than a 14 but in the Gorge, a 14 with a good downwind paddler that knows how to catch bumps, is going to be as fast or even faster over the course of the entire run. I don't think the short period makes the longer boards that difficult, if you steer and angle, they work fine. But the race boards seem better there.

When I got over to Maui, I really wanted to take a race board for a downwinder. Yes, people do it, but it's not a common thing and as far as I'm concerned, it is way too rough on the ocean to make those kind of boards effective 95 percent of the time. In my opinion, the Gorge is far more 'groomed' than most people realize. Even when it's rough and choppy there, it can't be compared to ocean paddling except for something really lined up and smooth, like a good Kihei run.

If you venture on an ad-venture, like to Howe Sound, please post a story!

[PonoBill]

No question that a race board can be faster than a DW board in the Gorge--it's proven almost every good day. Especially the ones that stay close to the Oregon side, snipe the good swells, and then use the slow-moving eddy to go fast. That's the fast way up the river even on an F16. That's how I used to keep up with you! Especially when my knee was screwed and I couldn't stay on the board, and you and Karen Wrenn were out playing in the middle.

But the fun is all out in the middle of the river, and if you're all about the glide, then a Bullet 17 is magic. I stick to the two extremes, Bullet 17 or 11'11" Recon surfboard, to get the best of both. Bullet for mid days, Recon for nukin'.  The big problem is when you choose poorly. Hauling a Recon up the river with sucko wind is a lot of work.

[Eagle]

Hey Blue crab, you put in at Porteau and take out at Squamish on an inflow southerly.  A shorter run is Porteau to Britannia -> and a longer one is Horseshoe Bay to Porteau or Squamish.  Another is West Van over to Vancouver when we get a westerly.  Generally you can find an ok DW run somewhere but note that none of the runs are perfectly lined up the whole way so you will need to traverse across waves to get a good line.

PM when you are in the area as we may be available to go for a run or two and give you the in out details.  From the Sea To Sky highway you do get a good idea how hard it is pumping and by far Howe Sound is the place to be for DW fun in and around Vancouver.  We encourage all Zoners to contact me if interested when in the area -> even JR did a clinic here but the wind was light that day so that was good for beginners.  Those that are in Hawaii can get more info about the area from him directly as he stayed with one of our DW crew while here.   

[Blue crab]

Work has been brutal this summer. >30 days since my last DW and counting. Not good. At this point, I'd be happy just floating in an inner tube down the river, but I digress.

PB & Cove, I agree about the racing board.  I am still all about the glide rather than my times, so I'll gladly suffer a bit at the end of the run in order to maximize glides for the first 80%. Hence, my love of the F16.  That being said, I have a 25" King's board which pokes through waves like an OC and surfs quite well: will be awfully fun in the gorge I am sure but requires a hell of a lot of concentration. I'll probably bring the whole quiver next time I am in town.

Eagle, Thanks so much. A similar offer extend to all zoners in or around Seattle.  Would be incredibly fun to take out of town guests on one of our local runs, particularly in the fall when it is pouring / hailing / nuking.  Hawaii it is not.  I'll definitely take you up on the offer to try Howe Sound. Given the drive, I am sure our crew would be up for the longest run possible.  We are used to dealing non-lined up runs in Seattle so that should be no sweat. Already eyeing the first week in August.

[Eagle]

Blue crab, the wind maxes in July here but August is still good.  It helps to head left to the cliff wall across the inlet after Watts Point otherwise you paddle on the right the whole way in.  The kite boarders can be a bit cheeky entering the river so keep an eye out for them pulling air right in front of you as you surf and plane in.

Here is an idea of the wind pattern and direction at Squamish Spit and the correction line in -

[Argosi]

Eagle, those are incredible wind stats. Here on Lake Ontario in Toronto, I'm hoping to do our first downwinder of the summer in 17mph winds tomorrow. You are one lucky guy.

I can see why you like the Bullets and M14s there. They wouldn't get too much use over here, maybe in January, but then my launch site has been frozen solid Dec-Mar the past 2 years.