Broken paddle shaft - Need glue or different dowel recommendation

[lunchbox]

So I cracked my paddle shaft two weeks ago and thought I had it fixed. I used a 3" PVC 3/4" pipe as a dowel (not the white pipe but the pipe you use to put the sprinker head on. It was a perfect fit). Used a 5 min expoxy and two wraps of 4 oz glass on the outside.

Worked great on the 3/4 mile paddle to my break, but then came apart the first wave I tried to paddle into (the glass cracked and the bottom of the paddle completely slide off the dowel)...man, I was bummed. It was a long run back to the car to get the extra paddle.

I roughed up both sides of the dowel and inside the carbon shaft. At this point, I have used several different types of glues and a longer dowel but nothing has worked so far. After 24 hours, I am still able to separate the dowel from the shaft.

I'm going to buy a new paddle in a month or so but I'm the type of person that won't give up until I can fix it...especially when I know there's got to be something that will work.

Right now, I'm testing Gorilla glue to see if that works. Will know in about 8 hours when I get home from work and try it.

But, in preparation for a possible failure, I wanted to get some recommendations on a different glue or even using a different dowel (maybe wood)?

So, does anyone have any glue or dowel recommedations....I'm coming pretty close to just throwing the paddle away and calling it a day.

Thanks.

[surfcowboy]

That paddle is several layers of fabric and "real" surfboard epoxy. It's not about glueing it, it's about sanding down and adding carbon or glass to rebuild that shell.

It may not be as strong as it was but you should be able to get it back to useable. I've seen guys on here use a tight fitting wooden dowel.

Have you considered buying a new shaft and just putting the blade and handle on that? Probably as easy if not easier and you'll have a great spare.

[stoneaxe]

Use a longer dowel of wood, like 10". Choose a wood that bends more easily, (low modulus of elasticity) and orient the grain to allow flex.  A longer dowel will bend easier, it can hold better with more surface area and be less likely to cause stress risers. The dowel doesn't have to be super tight if you are using gorilla glue. The gorilla glue expands and will fill in any spaces and should hold fine. Make sure you wet the pieces thoroughly before glueing. Glue it all up, let it set, and then sand it to taper to the break from both sides and wrap it in glass. You want it to be close to the felexibility of the rest of the shaft or you will be creating a hard point (the stress riser) in the shaft that might result in it breaking elsewhere. I have a paddle that I broke years ago that was fixed that way and it still hasn't broken again. I whittled the dowel from red cedar. Doesn't get much use now unless someone borrows it but it was used pretty heavily for about a year after the break.

[Sup-position]

What is the ID and OD of your paddle shaft ?

[lunchbox]

Have you considered buying a new shaft and just putting the blade and handle on that? Probably as easy if not easier and you'll have a great spare.

...and that's why my next paddle is going to be Ke Nalu 

It's a Riviera Assest paddle. I'm not sure how the paddle is connected to the shaft or if it will even come off. I made the mistake several years ago of using Professional Welding glue (something like that, can't remember the exact name) on the handle, so I don't think that part will come off.

@Stoneaxe - Hadn't thought about going that long only because of the extra weight...I know, it probably wouldn't be that much difference. But I hadn't thought about the flexibility aspect...very good point, however, now I am a little concerned about the 'solid' PVC pipe I am using.
It will be interesting to see if the Gorilla glue holds because of that expanding aspect of it. However, I did read the directions after the fact about the water (I did not wet it first), so we'll see how that plays out. I hate to admit it, but it might be time for glasses for me

@Supposition - will have to measure when I get home, but the inside diameter is probablyl just a few millimeters beyond 3/4" (the 3/4" PVC pipe was a very snug fit) . The outside diameter, maybe 2-3 millimeters beyond that.

[Sup-position]

I have a crap load of shaft cuts and some broken ones..
Varying diameters..
So if we can find one that you can sleeve on the outside
it might work..

[PonoBill]

It's hard to make PVS stick to anything but PVC via solvent melting. Generally if you're going to repair a shaft you have to accept that it's going to be a LOT heavier, because you have to move the stress risers for the repair a long way from the joint. Ten inches is probably a good start. I've repaired shafts with a piece of carbon tubing that fit perfectly and then broke the damn thing at the ends of the tube. Depending on where the break is, you might be a lot better off just trimming the end and making a shorty out of the paddle--either for canoe paddling or for the kids.

[stoneaxe]

You won't add much weight with the cedar, hold 6 pencils in your hand, about the same weight. You can keep the glass weight wrap low by pre-load the glass, wrapping it with saran, then wrapping some self sealing tape real tight starting at one end and going to the other. Squeezes out the excess resin nice. Not a perfect finish but smooth enough after sanding.

[PonoBill]

Better yet, find an old vhs tape and get the Mylar out of it. Wrap on your glass, then wrap the mylar tape tightly, shiny side down, starting an inch or two above the wet glass. Get someone to turn the shaft while you feed the tape on, overlapping the tape about half it's width. That's the low-tech version of how Ke Nalu shafts are made. You can compress the glass very tightly. The mylar can be stripped off after the epoxy cures.

[Bean]

You can get similar results with heat shrink tube, but it has to be the right kind.  (Soller composites).

[lunchbox]

I have a crap load of shaft cuts and some broken ones..
Varying diameters..
So if we can find one that you can sleeve on the outside
it might work..

Cool. Thanks Ralph...might take you up on it if the dowel ends up failing.

@Stoneaxe - Do you think I would be able to find a cedar dowel at Home Depot or Lowe's?

@PB - Very cool tip on the VHS tapes!

Update - So the Gorilla glue appears to be working (i.e. I wasn't able to twist the dowel at all). The real test will be if it survives a few hours of paddling for waves. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it out tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

[magentawave]

lunchbox - Go here http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,21970.msg220192.html#msg220192 to see Beasho's excellent instructions on how he repairs a paddle with NO plug or dowel inside.

PonoBill - Good tip about using VHS tape. You're right about PVC being difficult to glue to but epoxy will adhere to PVC if you sand it and then do a few passes over it with a blow torch immediately before you apply resin. I've done this and it works.

Instructions are from the last paragraph on this page of the West site:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/surface-preparation/
"Hard, rigid plastics such as PVC, ABS and styrene provide better adhesion with good surface preparation and adequate bonding area. After sanding, flame oxidizing (by quickly passing propane torch over the surface without melting the plastic) can improve bonding in some plastics. It's a good idea to conduct an adhesion test on a plastic that you are uncertain about."

[capobeachboy]

If it's broken close to the blade here's what you can do: United Airlines broke my KeNalu that I used for distance & racing I removed the broken bottom piece from the blade, cleaned up the upper break, and stuck it back together.  It was a few inches shorter so it became my surfing paddle.  I used an extended ergo T handle for awhile but decided to keep ti short and light for surfing.  It's still going strong 2 yrs later. KeNalus are put together with hot glue, but you can do the same thing with your paddle but it's just a bit more involved cutting the broken end of the shaft and/of coring out the top of the blade.

Shafts can be repaired but I would leave that to the experts unless it was going to be used purely for kids or slow paced recreational paddling.  Too much stress on them in the surf catching waves, bracing, etc.

PS: the KeNalu was in a bag with a Kialoa and they both broke in the same spot. The Kialoa was repaired too but it took a while to core out the paddle to re-glue. 
United denied a claim for damages to our paddles, and since then I've had three other friends with broken paddles thanks to United Airlines. 

[stoneaxe]

Cool....hadn't seen Beasho's repair before. If you can do it without a dowel all the better.

[spookini]

Ten inches is probably a good start.

That's what SHE...awww, never mind.