Author Topic: Will it downwind? Yes or No?  (Read 67109 times)

yugi

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2015, 11:19:44 PM »
I have a question I have always been wondering about for  downwind boards and OffShore seems well placed to give perspective on it right now riding a SIC F16, SIC Bullet 14 and having just ridden a 25” race board downwind.

Isn’t typically a wider board more optimal to get up onto a plane?

I know a gun shape is what you need to have some control in very fast or choppy stuff, and I guess that’s the trade-off. However the general rule in planing hulls is wider helps you up onto a plane in marginal conditions. I sail, windsurf, wakeboard, kite and ski and this holds true for all of these. Even our fat mountain bike tires on wide rims float over stuff better.

What do you think? What’s optimal for these light conditions? A wider hull like your F16 or a narrow one to help build up primary speed?

Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2015, 12:53:22 AM »
Yugi, these are good questions. Looking back on the 4 boards I've tested in this thread the one that surprised me the most was the Think XO 14'. This picks up even the smallest of runners and with its sharp Surfski like nose seems to slice through way more than I expected and avoids the pearling. Very surprising. So I would say in a groomed light downwind this will give me more smiles than my F16v3 or Bullet 14v1. I'm not sure how wide the Think is. I've paddled it a lot and the Starboard Race 14' x 25" only the one time so maybe it is just more familiar.

Bear in mind the total Stanley run is 4km with only 2km downwind leg so for longer runs I'll still take the planing boards. Less tiring. If you have ever fallen off so many times you can't stand up at all you will know what I mean: it's not a board is taken on a long open ocean downwind.

I've also gone from my F16 to a friends F14 which is wider mid-downwind and whilst it can catch things it just felt so sticky and sluggish compared to the F16 and dropped off the glide quicker. Width matters.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 01:20:59 AM by Off-Shore »
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Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2015, 04:28:32 AM »


2:37 Classic death roll. On a glide on the main swell at just a slight angle down the line. Displacement bow nose touches. Pulls you just a bit more to the left, while tipping board to starboard. You so spat off.

Right there lies the true nuanced answer to your question: “yes it does downwind, but…”.

I’m happy to see this new trend for  race boards as real allrounders which have full planing bottoms and just enough rocker.

OS, a 2015 14’ Naish Javelin or Focus Bluefin would be ideal for your course and look like they also handle more festive conditions. Race steeds that excel at downwind.

Yugi, actually what I think got me was the ground swell that comes in from the left. Whether this means catching the nose as the wave in front swells up of just the sideways movement of the swell, it got me twice. But I mastered it towards the end and sadly managed to somehow switch off the GoPro by my phone which was in my pocket as it would have been some awesome footage.

I'd love to try the Naish Javelin on this run. Naish are not well represented here though.

SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

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TN_SUP

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2015, 05:40:41 AM »
Yet another question is "will it cross wind",  can you paddle 45 to 90 degrees from the wind direction? My Sprint, similar to the SB Race, requires tacking upwind/downwind several times to get to the takeout when the wind is perpendicular to it as I can't balance or maintain direction otherwise! Fin is a factor too.
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Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2015, 07:54:03 AM »
Yet another question is "will it cross wind",  can you paddle 45 to 90 degrees from the wind direction? My Sprint, similar to the SB Race, requires tacking upwind/downwind several times to get to the takeout when the wind is perpendicular to it as I can't balance or maintain direction otherwise! Fin is a factor too.

TN_SUP, I am lucky on this mini downwind run that I have little or no 45 to 90 degrees wind direction paddling due to the geography of the area. I know for a fact that I would find it hard or impossible to paddle the Think XO 14' or the SB Race 14' x 25" in aggressive cross wind situations. When we race here we often have cross wind conditions and the Think XO 14' sucks. Whereas the Starboard All Star 12-6 and RedPaddle 14' Elite Race are fine.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 07:57:38 AM by Off-Shore »
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

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SUPJorge

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2015, 09:13:56 AM »
"Will it crosswind?" Sounds like a great idea for another good thread. (My experience is that the SIC Bullet 14V2 is pretty good in these conditions also.)
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balance_fit

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2015, 03:01:23 PM »

Did the open transom on this board cause an influx of water in the deck? I saw some water sloshing around the foredeck at one point, but can't discern if this water, when pointing into the through of the wave ahead, shifted forward and contributed to pearling.



On the water slipping around the board was dry when on the move. But when I fell off it was a challenge to get back in with all the water slopping in being blown in with the waves from the back when stopped. Very interesting. I guess water coming in from the front gets sucked out the back when you get moving.

I had a second edition SB ACE, which, with the deep cockpit, sometimes drank lots of water it couldn't spit out through the small drains it had quickly enough. This water came forward onto my feet when I faced down a swell, momentarily. I believe the open transom has addressed this issue effectively.
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XLR8

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2015, 04:45:18 PM »
Yet another question is "will it cross wind",  can you paddle 45 to 90 degrees from the wind direction? My Sprint, similar to the SB Race, requires tacking upwind/downwind several times to get to the takeout when the wind is perpendicular to it as I can't balance or maintain direction otherwise! Fin is a factor too.

That's an important trait for a downwind board in the Great Lakes.  It is rare to get a perfectly lined up run.  Most times the swell angle works you toward shore and you have to sort of lob yourself out there and run a downwind arc, with the belly as straight as possible.

I look for a board to ride cross swell well when I drop the inside rail to the swell.  Sometimes I use a stretched out stair step style of line in cross swell, depending on how well and how long I can catch the runners.
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stoneaxe

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2015, 07:47:42 PM »
For me it's all about good initial stability and a planing hull for downwind. I'll leave piercing hull and rounded bottoms that rely on secondary stability to others. Might be faster but for me its just too much to be fighting the board all the time and you're not fast and catching glides if you're in the water. Crosswind I've found they are next to impossible. The 18' Speedboard I have here is blindingly fast and Bill says it downwinds fine, but for me it's a flatwater thoroughbred. Crosswind it's like trying to turn an aircraft carrier. I like longer runs if you're going downwind otherwise its just over too quick and if I'm fighting for balance it gets old quick. My Vec which was modeled after the Foote Maliko 14 lets me do pretty much anything with confidence.
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Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2015, 07:29:37 AM »
A friend and fellow Zoner kindly lent me his Starboard All-Star 14' x 27.5" for a race today, and since there was a bit of wind, I managed to do a quick "Will it Downwind?" Vid after the race. This time I added a cross-wind test into the sequence. Vid will be uploaded in 12 hours..
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

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PonoBill

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2015, 09:37:00 AM »
Seems like in the great lakes you could do some monster cross-lake runs. I experienced that wind before a microburst storm in Chicago. That was pretty offshore, the big challenge was getting back to the beach. I was on the Starboard 12'6" X30 I later gave to Bob (Stoneaxe) but I was sailing it. A lot of fun until I realized I couldn't get back in. Pinched it as hard as I could and did a landfall about a mile from my truck. Basic walk of shame.

As soon as my immediate downwind junkie urges get satisfied I'll take out the only slightly weird downwind board I have here--an SIC Ku Nalu. I already know the answer, it's a blast, but some video to show what a great DW board the little 12'2" is would be fun. Now that I think of it I also have a 12'6" X 30 down in the storeroom. I'll fire that up. It downwinds fine too.
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Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2015, 03:22:31 PM »
Here is the "Will it downwind? Starboard All-Star 14' x 27.5" (2013 version)" vid. Only a small and very light downwind section.. but some interesting flat water next to a shark net, and some crosswind. This was shot after our monthly race, and also shows some of the Surfskis and OCs on the final leg of their race which was longer than ours.

http://youtu.be/xe6t2u2cK3M
Thanks to BF for the loan of his board
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

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TN_SUP

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2015, 06:12:49 PM »
Another great video, the all star always looked good. Wonder why starboard changed the nose design, only lasted 1 year, something must be wrong with it.
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Off-Shore

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2015, 06:50:54 PM »

As soon as my immediate downwind junkie urges get satisfied I'll take out the only slightly weird downwind board I have here--an SIC Ku Nalu. I already know the answer, it's a blast, but some video to show what a great DW board the little 12'2" is would be fun. Now that I think of it I also have a 12'6" X 30 down in the storeroom. I'll fire that up. It downwinds fine too.

PB. I look forward to seeing that. I took a friends Starboard 12-6 x 30" surfboard style SUP out today, but wind was again marginal. Vid to be posted in 48 hours...
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

Blue crab

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Re: Will it downwind? Yes or No?
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2015, 12:40:02 AM »
Beanie: Lake Geneva.

The lake is pretty deep in the middle then funnels in to Geneva getting narrower and shallower. The strong NE wind comes down perfectly in line with the funneling. Amplifying waves. They bounce off the sides and down the middle we get some pretty good doubleups (wake boarders will know what I’m talking about). Some steep, some longer. We typically drop in off the point at Nyon (see below) just where the shelf starts for a 20km run.

In 563 AD Geneva was destroyed by a tsunami, caused by a landslide at the other end of the lake. Here's the science on that event.
   http://tinyurl.com/cqrql4p




It is also where a “seiche” was first identified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiche

Photo’s:
1 Paddling into town for a beer
2 demo of the dreaded race nose “death roll”

Hi Yugi,

I am traveling to Geneva for a meeting in 10 days.  I have one day off (3/21) and was planning to hit Chamonix for a day.  Your post has me considering different options, however. Is there any downwinding infrastructure (rentals, shuttle etc...) to speak of? I'd like to give Lake Geneva a shot if it is nuking. Feel free to PM me. Thanks!

BC

 


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