Author Topic: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid  (Read 4895 times)

Off-Shore

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Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« on: February 01, 2015, 08:04:17 AM »
Listening to the shipping bulletin this morning, where 3 meter (~10 feet) swells were recorded at 6am at a place called Waglan Island, I thought I'd try and catch a few of them.. It was harder than I thought in the 20 knot winds we had today, despite having watched Robert Stelhik's video on how to do this. Wind was from the North East, and Swell from the East.. I think 5 knots more wind would have made it easier, but I did catch one at the end.. for a short while.. 

I'd appreciate any tips on how to better catch these.

http://youtu.be/430qTnzj1TM
This is about as Maui-like as it gets here... Apologies for the preamble..
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 08:17:44 AM by Off-Shore »
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PonoBill

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 10:42:12 AM »
You need little bumps to catch the big bumps. Big swells don't have as defined a face as smaller ones, and they travel a lot faster in deep water. You can't paddle that fast from cruising speed, you have to already be on a plane or at least have some momentum. Guys like Connor, who have a ten mph top speed can sometimes catch them, but not mortals. The surface you were in had some smaller bumps, but it looked like you were going straight after the bigs. As Jeremy says, catch the small- and mid-sized bumps and the big bumps will take care of themselves.
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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2015, 06:46:18 PM »
You need little bumps to catch the big bumps. Big swells don't have as defined a face as smaller ones, and they travel a lot faster in deep water. You can't paddle that fast from cruising speed, you have to already be on a plane or at least have some momentum. Guys like Connor, who have a ten mph top speed can sometimes catch them, but not mortals. The surface you were in had some smaller bumps, but it looked like you were going straight after the bigs. As Jeremy says, catch the small- and mid-sized bumps and the big bumps will take care of themselves.

Thanks PB. This is good advice. Looking at the marine charts this area is deeper than surrounding areas and they were going too fast for me to catch even if I managed to get on the plane going SW, it was too big a transition to catch these which were travelling due West. With more wind it would have been possible. If I get the same conditions again I'm going to seek out some shallower water. A lot of fun trying though.
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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 01:04:38 AM »
One of the reasons learning to bank turns is that making those tighter turns in mid-size swells gives you a lot of speed. It could actually be better to have wind swells traveling SW to get on a bigger ground swell going west. If you are going straight in the direction of the swell your speed will be about the same as the swell unless there's enough of a drop to shoot through the back of the swells and catch the next one. When you bank hard into the face of a swell your speed is greater than the swell--like the speed gained surfing across the face of a wave instead of going straight. If you get to a 45 degree angle you're going 1.6 times faster than the swell. Just don't get too close to 90 degrees or you will exceed the speed of light and wind up finishing your run before you start it.
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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 03:59:59 AM »
One of the reasons learning to bank turns is that making those tighter turns in mid-size swells gives you a lot of speed. It could actually be better to have wind swells traveling SW to get on a bigger ground swell going west. If you are going straight in the direction of the swell your speed will be about the same as the swell unless there's enough of a drop to shoot through the back of the swells and catch the next one. When you bank hard into the face of a swell your speed is greater than the swell--like the speed gained surfing across the face of a wave instead of going straight. If you get to a 45 degree angle you're going 1.6 times faster than the swell. Just don't get too close to 90 degrees or you will exceed the speed of light and wind up finishing your run before you start it.

PB. Now you have me fired up. I see exactly what you mean. So actually if I can get enough speed up going SW, and then catch the swell going West, but continue travelling SW when on the face of the swell, I would be really motoring. I've caught smaller ones than these before and have managed to do this, and to turn down and climb up and over onto the next one a couple of times before, but never managed to catch these bigger ones.
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SUPJorge

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 07:33:44 AM »
Hi OS,

Hope all's well. I'm enjoying your videos. For those of us still learning this DW thing, their "tutorial" theme make a great addition to the body of work already being assembled by the likes of Riggs, Stehlick, and DJ. Keep 'em coming.

PS. We had a good DW in Biscayne Bay last Monday and the forecast for Friday is 27mph, out of the North so, if it holds, we'll be DWing the Atlantic.
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PonoBill

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 09:32:54 AM »
Actually what I meant was to catch the smaller wind swells going SW by going straight SW (easiest way to catch them) Then bank towards the west across the face to pick up speed and catch the big west swell. If you're banking into most of the SW swells you'll probably catch some of the big guys automatically--like Jeremy says, they'll take care of themselves.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 04:27:11 PM »
We had a good DW in Biscayne Bay last Monday and the forecast for Friday is 27mph, out of the North so, if it holds, we'll be DWing the Atlantic.

SJ. Good to hear from you and I'm only sorry i did not get a chance to downwind in Maimi with you when I was there. It was fun though to get out with your Sat morning crew for a flat water paddle all the same. They are all fast paddlers!

Hope the wind holds for you for this week. You have some awesome geography there which seems to allow downwinders in all directions!
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SUPJorge

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 01:29:29 PM »
Just wish the wind were as good as the geography.
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yugi

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2015, 10:04:28 PM »
reach dammit reach

Good reach is key to helping you get on a plane, especially in marginal conditions. It lightens the board for a moment which can make all the difference. I'm surprised you aren't clearing the pad on your paddle entry ( I could be wrong, I'm familiar with a Bullet 14' but have only downwinded once on a 17'4 so it's hard to recall and am only imagining where the pad ends is on a 16). Or maybe you are standing a tad back. The SIC ASS is positioned for bigger conditions then you are in on the vid. For marginal planing conditions it helps to creep further forward to help initiate the plane. In addition when you do begin to plane your scootch back into surf stance further helps propel the board. Similar to scootching in sailing (for any dinghy racers out there).

Also wondering how you get your wind readings? At 20 kn one would expect plenty of white caps. 20 kn is the point where you even start to see spray. I've consistently noticed a big difference between your wind reports in your videos and the texture of the sea.

PonoBill

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2015, 10:23:05 PM »
you can also move the steering forward. There are three holes, and usually they are set in the middle. Moving the A.S.S. forward might help.

Beaufort scale is a useful indicator of deep water wind indication. Shallow water, current, and water temperature all affect whitecaps and spray. You don't usually see copious spray until 30-35 kts and spindrift at 40+

Force 3
7 - 10 knots
Gentle Breeze Large wavelets. Perhaps scattered white horses

Force 4
11 - 16 knots
Moderate Breeze Small waves. Fairly frequent white horses.

Force 5
17 - 21 knots
Fresh Breeze Moderate waves, many white horses

Force 6
22 - 27 knots
Strong Breeze Large waves begin to form; white foam crests, probably spray

Force 7
28 - 33 knots
Near Gale Sea heaps up and white foam blown in streaks along the direction of the wind

Force 8
34 - 40 knots
Gale Moderately high waves, crests begin to break into spindrift

Force 9
41 - 47 knots
Strong Gale High waves. Dense foam along the direction of the wind. Crests of waves begin to roll over. Spray may affect visibility


Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

yugi

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 10:52:24 PM »
here's a handy converter (plus description)
   http://www.windfinder.com/wind/windspeed.htm

Off-Shore

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 05:27:52 AM »
reach dammit reach

Good reach is key to helping you get on a plane, especially in marginal conditions. It lightens the board for a moment which can make all the difference. I'm surprised you aren't clearing the pad on your paddle entry ( I could be wrong, I'm familiar with a Bullet 14' but have only downwinded once on a 17'4 so it's hard to recall and am only imagining where the pad ends is on a 16). Or maybe you are standing a tad back. The SIC ASS is positioned for bigger conditions then you are in on the vid. For marginal planing conditions it helps to creep further forward to help initiate the plane. In addition when you do begin to plane your scootch back into surf stance further helps propel the board. Similar to scootching in sailing (for any dinghy racers out there).

Also wondering how you get your wind readings? At 20 kn one would expect plenty of white caps. 20 kn is the point where you even start to see spray. I've consistently noticed a big difference between your wind reports in your videos and the texture of the sea.

Thanks Yugi. All good points here. Lets start with the standing position. PB has pointed this out to me before and thinks that I should move my tiller forward, but unfortunately there are not a 2nd set of holes forward of the ones that the tiller is screwed into, to do this. I have therefore ordered the new adjustable tiller as I do think when standing with my toes on the tiller I'm too far back. What I am doing now is have my right foot slightly forward with my left foot to the side of the tiller and that seems to work better.

Secondly reaching... Sadly I'm not as flexible as I once was and this was shot at the very end of a long session... Something I need to work on, as I absolutely know that getting the paddle way out and rapidly, means more acceleration and speed.

Thirdly wind speeds. I've noticed that the when you look downwind compared to looking upwind there is a big difference in seeing white caps / white horses through GoPro footage. The GoPro only seems to pick these up when you are right on them. It always disappoints me how it looks on the GoPro footage compared to how it is. The other reason for the difference, is I am using an offshore island weather station (Waglan Island) which records wind speeds real time as a base for what I post for wind speeds in my vids, and this station is a) elevated and b) probably the windiest place to record wind in our area. It is approx 8 kms due east of where this vid was shot. Rather than be subjective, I like having one source for windspeed. I did not get a screen grab of the windspeed for the vid above but this one is from the L2CC vid I posted from the week earlier when conditions were similar. As you can see between 10 and 11am the wind was between 34-38kph which is around 20 knots. Not a science, but there is method in the madness.

I've also added a picture looking upwind on the same day of the L2CC video. This is taken closer to the shore so there is little swell, but it does give a totally different impression of the windspeed. Perhaps it is also shallower here and as PB points out the deeper the water and the further out I go (usually 5-8kms off-shore where this vid was shot) the less white caps / white horses there are.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 05:59:52 AM by Off-Shore »
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yugi

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 10:24:11 PM »
why is there a "/" in the name of the wind speed unit of measure?

PonoBill

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Re: Downwinding - Catching Ocean Swell (or attempting to) - Vid
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 12:49:09 AM »
It's always true that the way you see whitecaps depends on which way you're looking. Camera or eye, it's all the same. Every windsurfer knows that, especially gorge sailors.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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