Author Topic: Innovation and Hype  (Read 6823 times)

feet

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Innovation and Hype
« on: January 23, 2015, 12:50:50 PM »
I'm curious as to why much of the recent innovation hype in SUP seemsto be coming from Europe or Australia.  Case in point would be Tomo Vanguard and prior to that Gong, who seems to be willing to make any and all shapes.  Naish seems really late to the party as does Starboard, etc. Of course, one could point to SupSports or L41 and company, and they definitely are ahead of the curve, but why has it taken others so long to introduce new shapes? Did they really think new graphics were all it took to get US buyers on a new board? Is it because they were around longer and made windsurfers before SUP? Is this just my imagination? Is it because American shapers are too stoned to have any motivation to push the envelope?

Ok, just being a dick with the last one, but seriously, what gives?


beached

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 01:24:18 PM »
Australia probably has the best surf, then the West Coast US, then lastly, the East Coast US. That seems to roughly align with the order of innovators. Why did the Gorge seem to have so much innovation in windsurfing in the past? Same answer.

jumpfrom13k

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 01:28:50 PM »
Cause weird looking board don't sell?

How many Tomo do you see out at the line up? I rarely see Tomo's out at the line up atleast at Lowers and Uppers. If there is a Tomo rider they tend to be average rider as well. I haven't seen one Tomo rider who can absolutely rip.

But obviously the shape works, specially in a SUP environment. SUP surfer wants something stable enough so they can stand up on it 100% of the time. Prone surfers don't really care about it's overall stability.

In SUP community weird looking board sells, because SUPPers don't really give a shit about how cool they look. Instead SUPPers wants something that works and have fun with.

Let's face it, if SUPPers really considers coolness factor as a top reason to determine what board they need to get, then SUPPers wouldn't really be SUPPing in first place right?  ;)

As soon as you bring out SUP board and an Oar to the lineup. You are making a statement, "I'm here to have fun, I do not give a shit about what others think." because of that mentality weird looking SUP sells.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 01:38:07 PM by jumpfrom13k »

Badger

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 01:30:19 PM »
I would think being stoned would make you get more creative and want to push the envelope.

On the other hand, I don't like the square shaped boards. I think they're ugly.
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supthecreek

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 09:16:21 AM »
Surfers by and large are resistant to any real change... like a bunch of old ladies. Hence the thruster has been ridden at the same breaks going on 4 decades.
Thats a lot of same ole, same ole.... can you say boring? ;)

SUP company lag:
The big companies have to test a LOT before committing to investing in very expensive molds and complicated  laminating considerations.
Then there are production runs.
The big boys move at the speed of Elephants, while the handmade local companies can whip out a new "throwaway" shape in days.
The innovation comes faster, and is limited only by the vision of the shaper.

I doubt waves have anything to do with it. It's shapers or surfers asking shapers, to create something to fill a need.

The reason that the "Tomo" style has my interest is because it may overcome barriers for me.

pushing 67 and the accompanying wobbles...add 220 lbs... plus full wetsuits during wave season... and lots of moving water at my breaks.... stability matters.

But then... so does performance.... a quandary.

In traditional shapes, if I go shorter... I need width, not just sufficient volume. Heck... even at length, I need width for stability

Sims run similar widths as traditional, but go shorter. The wide tails put me off, don't like the way they surf or feel.

Along comes "Tomo" style
The width comes down by 3+ inches... which narrows the tail... better, but still too wide for my traditional self.
The length come down as well
OZ makes modifications to SUPdom and they start to work. 

Guys in the know down there say I should be on a 7'10 x 29 @ 119 liter.... whoa!
I've been very comfy on a 7'10 x 31 Simmons wide tail style, but hated it.

Some of the new "Tomo" style boards are incorporating more tail rocker and pulled in tails... could be a Bingo for me.

I'd go longer than conventional wisdom demands, but keep the width at 29"... that would vastly improve my rail to rail and still be a foot or more shorter than current boards

I love all these options... SUP is a different animal than a surfboard, and the sooner we realize that, the more open minded we will be to SUP specific innovation

These new shapes are starting to carve. There's one in Hawaii that will probably define power performance, and that will be a world different from the flat rocker mush sliders.

Bring em on!

raf

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 09:50:47 AM »
I'm not sure if I agree with your premise.  I think Starboard and Naish are making new boards.  Some are out of the box, and others are refinements on tried and true designs.  A board doesn't have to be totally different to be an improvement on the past.  Are people riding Starboard and Nais winning contests and races?

Badger

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 10:06:36 AM »
I would think being stoned would make you get more creative and want to push the envelope.

On the other hand, I don't like the square shaped boards. I think they're ugly.

What I meant was that I don't like the way they look. I might feel different if I rode one, but just looking at them, the overall shape doesn't appeal to me visually.

The shape might appeal to a wider audience if they added some nose to these boards but right now it's cool for some to have the shortest board possible.

If you cut the nose and tail off an eight footer, it's still the same eight footer you'll be riding only now it looks bad. Maybe we should start measuring boards at the waterline instead of length overall.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 10:29:53 AM by Badger »
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beached

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 06:16:47 AM »
I would think being stoned would make you get more creative and want to push the envelope.

On the other hand, I don't like the square shaped boards. I think they're ugly.

What I meant was that I don't like the way they look. I might feel different if I rode one, but just looking at them, the overall shape doesn't appeal to me visually.

The shape might appeal to a wider audience if they added some nose to these boards but right now it's cool for some to have the shortest board possible.

If you cut the nose and tail off an eight footer, it's still the same eight footer you'll be riding only now it looks bad. Maybe we should start measuring boards at the waterline instead of length overall.

really, who cares what a board looks like? i mean, if i had a choice between identical boards and one was pink and the other white, well, yeah, i care enough to avoid a pink board. but as far as design goes, use what is best regardless of aesthetics. the board pictured is one of my favorites...pretty, huh? (i never have to worry about someone stealing it).

surfcowboy

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 08:30:57 AM »
The companies you mentioned tell the tale. 2 are huge, 2 are tiny. JP is the outlier, I'm not sure how big they are but Australia is a much larger surf board market I'd bet.

And yes, people are sheep. And also, half the surf world just wants to be "called" a surfer and keep a board to show. Good looking boards fulfill that lifestyle need.

My friend jokes about inland SUP in TN by saying, " take a kayak out and they pull it off their car ASAP. Go paddle an SUP and they drive all over town with it on their racks so people know they are 'surfers'."

Vanguards and Vaders don't look like a surfboard to people you're trying to impress. ;)

Small companies always innovate more. They can afford to and they need to.

PonoBill

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 09:15:39 AM »
13K nailed it in one. So did surfcowboy, and I love the line about people driving all over town with a board on their car. I think in Hood River there might be some that are permanent fixtures. Of course I should talk--I haven't surfed in the week my grandson has been here (except baby waves) and the boards are on the truck.

The big companies aren't targeting people who care about innovation and performance, they're targeting people who want surfboards as lifestyle accessories, which is a much bigger market. I don't mean that they sit in a room and decide that, it happens automatically. Make something odd-looking that helps performance at the high end of skill level and it will sit on the rack--Unless Laird uses it, in which case it will be cool.
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Badger

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 09:46:31 AM »
You can just as easily drive around with a Vanguard or a Firewire Cornice on your roof and pretend to be way rad. It all depends on who you're trying to impress.

I'm all for any new and radical shape.  I just look at the square nose and wonder, how is that going to make the board work better.  I think the square nose may be more about aesthetics than you think.

I've also seen boards that look way too pointy for no apparent reason other than to look cool.

A surfboard is a hydrodynamic sculpture.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 10:04:06 AM by Badger »
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PonoBill

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 11:52:12 AM »
Quick to swing and fast on a wave, like a long board without the swing weight. Works fine as long as you keep the nose skimming, but lean forward a few centimeters too far and you're barefoot.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

coldsup

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 12:01:08 PM »
Surfers by and large are resistant to any real change... like a bunch of old ladies. Hence the thruster has been ridden at the same breaks going on 4 decades.
Thats a lot of same ole, same ole.... can you say boring? ;)

SUP company lag:
The big companies have to test a LOT before committing to investing in very expensive molds and complicated  laminating considerations.
Then there are production runs.
The big boys move at the speed of Elephants, while the handmade local companies can whip out a new "throwaway" shape in days.
The innovation comes faster, and is limited only by the vision of the shaper.

I doubt waves have anything to do with it. It's shapers or surfers asking shapers, to create something to fill a need.

The reason that the "Tomo" style has my interest is because it may overcome barriers for me.

pushing 67 and the accompanying wobbles...add 220 lbs... plus full wetsuits during wave season... and lots of moving water at my breaks.... stability matters.

But then... so does performance.... a quandary.

In traditional shapes, if I go shorter... I need width, not just sufficient volume. Heck... even at length, I need width for stability

Sims run similar widths as traditional, but go shorter. The wide tails put me off, don't like the way they surf or feel.

Along comes "Tomo" style
The width comes down by 3+ inches... which narrows the tail... better, but still too wide for my traditional self.
The length come down as well
OZ makes modifications to SUPdom and they start to work. 

Guys in the know down there say I should be on a 7'10 x 29 @ 119 liter.... whoa!
I've been very comfy on a 7'10 x 31 Simmons wide tail style, but hated it.

Some of the new "Tomo" style boards are incorporating more tail rocker and pulled in tails... could be a Bingo for me.

I'd go longer than conventional wisdom demands, but keep the width at 29"... that would vastly improve my rail to rail and still be a foot or more shorter than current boards

I love all these options... SUP is a different animal than a surfboard, and the sooner we realize that, the more open minded we will be to SUP specific innovation

These new shapes are starting to carve. There's one in Hawaii that will probably define power performance, and that will be a world different from the flat rocker mush sliders.

Bring em on!


Hurry up and buy one and do a review....we need the low down ;D

supsurf-tw

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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 12:34:02 PM »
I'm curious as to why much of the recent innovation hype in SUP seemsto be coming from Europe or Australia.  Case in point would be Tomo Vanguard and prior to that Gong, who seems to be willing to make any and all shapes.  Naish seems really late to the party as does Starboard, etc. Of course, one could point to SupSports or L41 and company, and they definitely are ahead of the curve, but why has it taken others so long to introduce new shapes? Did they really think new graphics were all it took to get US buyers on a new board? Is it because they were around longer and made windsurfers before SUP? Is this just my imagination? Is it because American shapers are too stoned to have any motivation to push the envelope?

Ok, just being a dick with the last one, but seriously, what gives?
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Re: Innovation and Hype
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 03:11:42 PM »
I'm curious as to why much of the recent innovation hype in SUP seemsto be coming from Europe or Australia.  Case in point would be Tomo Vanguard and prior to that Gong, who seems to be willing to make any and all shapes.  Naish seems really late to the party as does Starboard, etc. Of course, one could point to SupSports or L41 and company, and they definitely are ahead of the curve, but why has it taken others so long to introduce new shapes? Did they really think new graphics were all it took to get US buyers on a new board? Is it because they were around longer and made windsurfers before SUP? Is this just my imagination? Is it because American shapers are too stoned to have any motivation to push the envelope?

Ok, just being a dick with the last one, but seriously, what gives?

Thanks for the mention...&, even noticing our continued 10 year push into SUP sports development...;-)

Not stoned, BTW...;-)

I dunno if it goes without saying...but, the big international Euro based windboard, kiteboard, & late to the party SUP companies...will never be all that cutting edge in design and providing first in product to the market...quite simply, because it seems the corporate type people pulling the strings...CFO's...bean counters...wannabe surfers...etc...didn't get wet this morning...or, even any recent morning...it's not their driver...;-)

Seriously, being immersed in the sport...wet behind the ears for years , so to speak...and, being stoked to be in the water daily is a huge part of our DNA...the people in it just for the money don't have a sustainable MO...more to the point...they are NEVER going to have an advantage over the innovators that have incorporated standup paddling and paddlesurfing into their lifestyle on a daily...minute by minute...second by second basis...

Maybe this seems evident...maybe not...but, IMHO...it's been a fact of life and a huge factor, in this...and,  several other surfing sports that we have been involved with for over the last four decades...as always...YMMV...

Mahalos...{:~)

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