Author Topic: SUP The Mag "reviews"  (Read 28210 times)

Smokey Carter

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2014, 06:10:05 AM »
I stand by every word it. Please re-read what I said. We write negative things about gear for certain. But if something is just not worth reviewing, well, we're all fighting a tough battle.

If you didn't get my note, I'll send a free winter issue to any Zoner who isn't a subscriber and would like to read for themselves. Email letters@supthemag.com

I appreciate the admin allowing us to do this and will try to offer it again for you all to continue to review us.


Admin

  • Administrator
  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 6443
    • View Profile
    • StandUpZone
    • Email
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2014, 06:59:04 AM »
I stand by every word it. Please re-read what I said. We write negative things about gear for certain. But if something is just not worth reviewing, well, we're all fighting a tough battle.

If you didn't get my note, I'll send a free winter issue to any Zoner who isn't a subscriber and would like to read for themselves. Email letters@supthemag.com

I appreciate the admin allowing us to do this and will try to offer it again for you all to continue to review us.

Mmmmmm.  There is a lot of great gear out there.  Reviewing some of it and reporting it as such is of limited value.  Letting someone know to "save their money" on something that you have found to be substandard is very "worth" doing.

Quote
we're all fighting a tough battle. 

In the online world there is only brutal honesty.  Everything else is exposed, extracted, denuded, filleted and served steaming on a stick.  Release the hounds.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2014, 11:29:03 AM »
When we did our review of SUP boards in 2007 for Ke Nalu (back when it was an online magazine) I was advised by a a magazine publisher I respect NOT to publish negative comments about any board. I decided to ignore that advice, and published every comment our testers (about 25 people) provided on the feedback forms. There wasn't much, we didn't have as disciplined an approach as we should have, but if I did it again I would do something similar and just interview each tester after they come in from a trial run. And publish it all.

But I wouldn't expect that from a magazine that needs to live in today's world. I don't know that it's even important. There was a time when that would have been the only source of information on the quality of a product, now it's just one voice among many. I don't think you need to defend your approach. I'm a marketer. My appreciation for truth in advertising is purely theoretical. I certainly have no first hand experience with it. My only observation is on the internal inconsistency of your reply. I used to bullshit for a living, now it's just a hobby. But consistency is vital to good bullshit. One of the few areas that I am certifiably expert.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SaMoSUP

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2014, 01:10:49 PM »
I worked in the ad sales group at one of the big automotive sites that made a successful transition from print to digital. I'm sure most of you have used this publication/site at some point in your vehicle buying experience. We managed to keep a good separation between "church and state". Our editors were not afraid to be critical about any vehicle it test drove. And we test drove anything that was out in the US market good or bad. There was one major import manufacturer (one of the top three) that got pissed of about some reviews and decided to pull all its advertising spend on our site. We're talking millions of dollars of ad revenue lost on one client. Eventually they came back to us because we were a major source of leads for their dealers and they were missing out heavily on those. They needed us more than we needed them.

It's a bit of a power play between publishers and advertisers. Who needs who more? Looks like in the SUP industry, the advertisers currently have the power.

P.S.
Interestingly enough, we also had a supplementary forum site much like the Zone which had lots of user generated content about vehicle reviews and experiences. That generated much less advertising revenue even though it had almost as much traffic as the main site.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 01:15:45 PM by SaMoSUP »

stoneaxe

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 12084
    • View Profile
    • Cape Cod Bay Challenge
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2014, 08:19:33 PM »
I still think the Ke Nalu model is the best there can be....subjective reviews by a good sized sample of folks gives you a better sense of what a board is about....you need a broad array of folks of different sizes, experience and athleticism all contributing to the review for it to be really meaningful. One persons opinion, expert or not doesn't mean much. It's only when I can see multiple reviews that it starts to take on meaning. All the big guys might hate it but the 160 pounders think its the shizzle, all agree its a dog....its likely a dog. If 10 other big guys of approximate skill say they love a board....I want to try it. It's also what makes the zone work well except that you need to search out multiple reviews of a given board. When I tried to get a standardized thread going on reviews it was with that in mind...get a bunch of reviews of a given board from a wide mix of people.
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2014, 05:42:17 AM »
Been a while since I last clocked in and glad to see this thread that I started has raised a bit of a debate. :)

It is maybe not fair though to single out Smokey's Online Mag but afraid it was a vid on that which I watched from start to finish waiting for some actual surfer's opinion on a wetsuit.... but that never came...was just a description of the wetsuit - a video of what is in the marketing material IMHO. Yes ....it shows it better than in print but it wasn't a "review" IMHO. And maybe that is just it.....use a different word than "review"? 

On the issue of not reviewing products at all if they are crap........well...if you have a range of products to review and one of them is just rubbish then say it...don't just ignore it and leave it out...let punters know it is a waste of cash and let the manufacturer know they need to up their game. You don't need to go to town on it and write loads...short and to the point would suffice.

There is nothing worse for me personally than buying a mag and being promised a winter wetsuit review and getting five pages of wetsuits together with the brand's marketing material next to it...what is the use in that? This is what some of the UK surfing mags do and still do...never buy any of them now.

Hey...you can't please everyone 8)

(I guess the above is all in a perfect world...I do realize there is a real world where money has to be made to survive and keep people in jobs and companies doing what they do.)

« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 05:46:36 AM by coldsup »

Ichabod Spoonbill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2174
  • Hudson Valley, NY
    • View Profile
    • HVH2O
    • Email
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2014, 08:39:43 AM »
I'm going to throw in a different point of view here. I have to admit while I love publishing and magazine publishing, I'm pretty depressed by the SUP mags in general. When I read them I find these things:

1) Articles about the same eight or so SUP superstars.
2) Articles about SUP destinations I can't really afford on a teacher's salary.
3) A few reviews about equipment, but almost never comparative reviews between items in the same category.
4) Gorgeous photography.
5) Articles about races.

So little of this has to do with what I'm doing with my SUP.

Let me make a comparison with a couple of other industries. Most tech industry magazines have no problem reviewing tech and saying whether they like it or not. Yes, there are some more fan boyish mags like Mac mags, but even then they'll give a pretty good review of something, especially software. I can go them and be assured of some honest and sometimes harsh reviews. I get how that pisses off advertisers sometimes, but it's a level of honesty that I respect and trust. I can also find comparisons, how-to articles, and lots of tips. Often this is done in coordination with a good website.

I wrote for “Windsurfing” magazine back in the day. I remember reading older issues from the 80s and 90s and they were chock full of in-depth reviews of specific boards. They were so filled with information I had trouble finishing it. There were tips on all sorts of techniques too. It was a real resource, and I regretted having to get rid of them for that reason.

I wish the SUP mags dd the same, but they feel more like GQ for the SUP set instead of a resource for people in this world. Again, I understand why you guys are making the choices you're making, but something so valuable is gone. At least the Zone isn't afraid to call something a POS. (I've done a bit of that myself.) Or even if you don't want to go there, have articles for the more average joe.

I realize I might be in the minority here, but this is why I don't subscribe to any SUP magazines anymore. I want to sink my teeth into some good articles that have meaning for me, a 47 year-old dude with three kids who paddles to get a little peace and to go on afternoon adventures, with maybe longer ones on the horizon.
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2014, 10:09:17 AM »
I'm going to throw in a different point of view here. I have to admit while I love publishing and magazine publishing, I'm pretty depressed by the SUP mags in general. When I read them I find these things:

1) Articles about the same eight or so SUP superstars.
2) Articles about SUP destinations I can't really afford on a teacher's salary.
3) A few reviews about equipment, but almost never comparative reviews between items in the same category.
4) Gorgeous photography.
5) Articles about races.

So little of this has to do with what I'm doing with my SUP.

Let me make a comparison with a couple of other industries. Most tech industry magazines have no problem reviewing tech and saying whether they like it or not. Yes, there are some more fan boyish mags like Mac mags, but even then they'll give a pretty good review of something, especially software. I can go them and be assured of some honest and sometimes harsh reviews. I get how that pisses off advertisers sometimes, but it's a level of honesty that I respect and trust. I can also find comparisons, how-to articles, and lots of tips. Often this is done in coordination with a good website.

I wrote for “Windsurfing” magazine back in the day. I remember reading older issues from the 80s and 90s and they were chock full of in-depth reviews of specific boards. They were so filled with information I had trouble finishing it. There were tips on all sorts of techniques too. It was a real resource, and I regretted having to get rid of them for that reason.

I wish the SUP mags dd the same, but they feel more like GQ for the SUP set instead of a resource for people in this world. Again, I understand why you guys are making the choices you're making, but something so valuable is gone. At least the Zone isn't afraid to call something a POS. (I've done a bit of that myself.) Or even if you don't want to go there, have articles for the more average joe.

I realize I might be in the minority here, but this is why I don't subscribe to any SUP magazines anymore. I want to sink my teeth into some good articles that have meaning for me, a 47 year-old dude with three kids who paddles to get a little peace and to go on afternoon adventures, with maybe longer ones on the horizon.

Spot on!

I was just skipping through my Facebook newsfeed....another SUP The Mag post.....read our wetsuit guide....nice big front landing page with a few brand logos under it. Click on anything there and there is no guide but straight through to the normal thumbnail of the product with price...nothing else. Some Guide. Yes...it is just marketing bull but I am sick of this mag in my newsfeed....binned.



PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2014, 11:11:50 AM »
There's a major league problem with giving consumers what they want: They lie.

If you believed what people say instead of what they do you'd think no one looks at pornography, never eats at MacDonalds, and works out every day.

My late great friend owned a commercial dairy. I said to him "your yogurt is too sweet, why don't you make a light version, with less sugar." I didn't accept his answer that it wouldn't sell, so he sighed, and told me the whole story.

"We do taste tests, where we let people taste four fruit yogurts. More than 90 percent pick the sweetest one as "the best". So then we ask them if they would prefer a lighter yogurt with less sugar. Anyone that says yes--which is about 50 percent, we give a taste test again with different labels, and the less sweet say stuff like 'natural flavor', or 'no sugar added', and 60 plus percent pick the least sweet, and almost no one picks the sweetest."

"Well, there you go", says I, "you've educated them that there is a choice that might appeal to them. You could do that on the label".

"Not so fast, dummy. We buy the data for yogurt sales by club card match to our taste group. None of them buy the lighter stuff. I spent a lot of money to learn what I already know. If you want lighter yogurt, buy plain and a flavor and mix them. But of course no one does that."
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 11:13:54 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

clayfeeter

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
    • View Profile
    • Standup Journal, "The Original Standup Mag"
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2014, 04:22:00 AM »
Hey Bill, what a great "Lessons from a Yogurt Man" story!! 

I think you have to go with your gut in publishing (and life!) and hope -- in the end -- you've created something that is meaningful.

happy sweeping new year to all, clay
www.standupjournal.com
"You don't always have to leave blood on the keyboards... but it should feel like you did."

clayfeeter

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
    • View Profile
    • Standup Journal, "The Original Standup Mag"
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2014, 09:11:03 AM »
Holy geez Ichabod, you need a year's worth of Standup Journal back issues to pep you up!!


re: your "depression about sup mags in general"...

I hope our mag's approach and the issues we craft aren't part of your bummerhood.


re: the points you've made about sup mags...

1) Articles about the same eight or so SUP superstars.

guilty as charged...
 The best in the world when captured by the top photographers do land on our pages.

       -BUT, in breezing thru the past 7 years worth of our issues you'll see more than 5,000 everyday sup men, women, children l (and a couple we're not sure what they are, LOL, but that's ok) who scored shooting or being the subject of a cool shot with a fun but interesting and we hope informative (Who? What? When? Where? Why? How? and some emotion thrown in) caption to share.


re:
2) Articles about sup destinations I can't really afford on a teacher's salary.
       
Our motto has always been "It's always best in your own backyard" and I hope it shows (like with this low budget FL Expedition shot attached, that runs in our Spring 2015 issue)

... but, we also do send you around the world via our pages... Not gonna apologize for that.

... cause another one of our mottos is "Standup Journal let's you take a trip without leaving the farm."


re:
3) A few reviews about equipment, but almost never comparative reviews between items in the same category.

another of our mottos:
"Just say No to Equipment Reviews"

... because honestly you can ask a Zoner about gear and get a straighter scoop than you'll EVER get from a mag tester who was only able to give it a 12 minute run (in side chop after a possibly tequila-addled night)... yes, testers are humans.



re:
4) Gorgeous photography.

Guilty As Charged...

I hope people realize how much we bleed over picking the right photo to fill every nook and cranny of our mag.

(We devote almost NO space to images of pretty flowers, inset shots that are run too small to appreciate... shots you should only find in places like National Geographic; one of our competitor mags a couple/three years ago actually ran a FULL PAGE of a GRIZZLY BEAR in one of their stories.. wtf? Would have been a fabulous chance to run a sup shot.. in a sup mag, what a concept!!)



re:
5) Articles about races.

Rarely touch that... and when we do it's from a personality perspective.


... and to leave you with another one of our mottos:

 "Our read time is measured in Months not minutes"


Our "editorial well" -- meaning number of pages with no ads -- averages FIFTY PAGES, including this other spread (below) I've attached of Jess Leedy of Ventura, who we hope recovers quickly from a sup injury three days ago...

...  I hope you'll pick up our latest issue when it hits shops and newsstands in late Dec. and see what you think.
             Thank you,
                     Clay
                      www.standupjournal.com
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 09:21:49 AM by clayfeeter »
www.standupjournal.com
"You don't always have to leave blood on the keyboards... but it should feel like you did."

starman

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 869
    • View Profile
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2014, 10:45:19 AM »
Clay, I have to confess that the I'm always stoked to find the latest issue of the Standup Journal in my mailbox. The content never gets old no matter how often I page through a past issue. Happy Holidays to you and the entire staff!

Ichabod Spoonbill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2174
  • Hudson Valley, NY
    • View Profile
    • HVH2O
    • Email
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2014, 11:21:34 AM »
Clayfeeter, it's an industry thing I suppose. I am a voracious reader. I want to read content that gets me interested and makes me want to read more. I want content that isn't repetitive and gives me a reason to open the pages. I want to be taught stuff I don't already know.

So maybe that puts me in the minority, but that's how my mind works. I always want to know more.

Here's the thing. I get up at 4:45 every morning to get in some writing before the day begins. My rule is to put something down on the page that's new, that's interesting, makes a person want to stop and pay attention. I want that too from my reading material. Now your photos are good, but I want the same from the text.

If that makes me a nerd, or a geek, or a bookworm, then guilty as charged. That's what gets me interested.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

clayfeeter

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
    • View Profile
    • Standup Journal, "The Original Standup Mag"
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2014, 12:28:44 PM »
Fair enough, IchaBruddah... for sure we need to step it up and improve to more New Yorker-quality features!

Maybe I'm TOO strong of a believer in photography?


Our #1 Priority:
   -images accompanied by very rich captions that tell a story that is not obvious in the photo...

You are a professional teacher... I am your ADD-afflicted, short attention-span student, LOL...

When a woman just sent us a great, excited email about an African sup adventure feature she's just written, my first question was, "Sweet... can we see the photos?"


Because we don't care HOW great the story is,  you will look at those incredible photos 50 times (and read the captions at least 5 times)... but you will only read the story once.


So we ask our photojournalists to treat their stories for us as if they were sitting around a table, and tossing Polaroids, one at a time onto the table, and walking us through the adventure, the sojourn...


My bro Kurt, and best bud/assoc. publisher Glenn Dubock and I have sat around a table and campfire many times listening to our columnist/best bud Steve West talk story...

... and man can that boy talk story... so for our money if a story can match one of S. West's campfire tales, AND we have SICK photos: Boom!

             Thank you for caring enough to share your thoughts,
                                                                    Clay


« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 01:25:08 PM by clayfeeter »
www.standupjournal.com
"You don't always have to leave blood on the keyboards... but it should feel like you did."

clayfeeter

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
    • View Profile
    • Standup Journal, "The Original Standup Mag"
Re: SUP The Mag "reviews"
« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2014, 01:32:41 PM »
Fair enough, IchaBruddah... for sure we need to step it up and improve to more New Yorker-quality features!

Maybe I'm TOO strong of a believer in photography?


Our #1 Priority:
   -images accompanied by very rich captions that tell a story that is not obvious in the photo...

You are a professional teacher... I am your ADD-afflicted, short attention-span student, LOL...

When a woman just sent us a great, excited email about an African sup adventure feature she's just written, my first question was, "Sweet... can we see the photos?"


Bottom Line:
       you will look at those incredible photos 50 times (and read the captions at least 5 times)... but you will only read the story once.


So we ask our photojournalists to treat their stories for us as if they were sitting around a table, and tossing Polaroids, one at a time onto the table, and walking us through the adventure, the sojourn...


My bro Kurt, and best bud/assoc. publisher Glenn Dubock and I have sat around a table and campfire many times listening to our columnist/best bud Steve West talk story...

... and man can that boy talk story... so for our money if a story can match one of S. West's campfire tales, AND we have SICK photos: Boom!

             Thank you for caring enough to share your thoughts,
                                                                    Clay
www.standupjournal.com
"You don't always have to leave blood on the keyboards... but it should feel like you did."

 


* Recent Posts

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal