Author Topic: Love That New Board Smell  (Read 15352 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 08:57:47 PM »
Hey Area, what's with the attitude. I was trying to answer your question, part of which was talking about SupUK's "massive amount of rocker". I won't bother in the future.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:31:17 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 09:08:03 PM »
V2 (red) V1 (white) V3 (green) after a really great southside run. Smoking all the way.






Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Southbay

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2014, 10:54:42 PM »
That nose really looks cool. Bill H, really seemed to like it.  Says he got the best glides of his life, and he glides...alot!

PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 11:32:18 PM »
I'd say I like the nose, don't care for the tail, but that's just my balance issues.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

covesurfer

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 12:52:35 AM »
Getting way back on the tail is not always the preferred way to ride. Yes, you can and must do it under some circumstances but especially on a rudder board it becomes less urgent if you use the rudder to chase the swells at an angle, either right or left and continuously change directions following the wave energy. When you angle sharply, while still steering the board downwind, it is truly just like surfing down the line. You won't be poking the nose into the trough or the wave in front of the trough. Instead, you are staying higher on the face of a swell while angling, then changing directions just before the swell dissipates, taking advantage of the new swell that is building in the other direction. I've experienced this in conditions on both sides of Maui as well as in the Gorge. You can start taking advantage at about the 2' face size and up.

On today's Kihei run, I had to get my back foot behind me and weight it as much as possible. But I kept my front foot toe on the rudder using it to follow the swell, trying to keep the nose up by trimming with my weight on that back foot. It's a weird combo of surfing and rudder steering at the same time but when you start figuring it out, it is the fastest way to downwind and is even more addicting than the quick thrills of going straight off, running to the tail to keep from poking and running back up front to keep from stalling. When you're doing the steering/surfing thing correctly, you feel it. You will be connecting multiple waves for long periods of time and you totally feel like you are flowing along with the wave energy.

Hope this makes sense.  8)

supuk

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2014, 01:02:19 AM »
yes rocker slows you down it also make the board easier to turn. When I set out to build that first dw board of mine my main goal was the board had to be FUN with a capital F! I really didn't care about speed as we don't have any dw races and generally im waiting for most of my friends to catch up so being faster just means sitting around more. In the summer we paddle medium period ocean stuff around 80-10miles with a lot of cross chop in 15-20knots and normally NOT in perfect tail wind conditions, and in the winter like A10 said its normally inland harbor runs in very shallow water ( you can actually touch the bottom standing a lot of the time) these runs are normally done in a minimum of 20knots going right up to 60knots like we had earlier in the year. You could easily take a 10'6 and surf the bumps the way the jack up on the sand bars so you get a idea of conditions.

Now talking purely about these very short and medium period stuff from my friends and my experience going back to back on various boards, while the lack of a little speed can some times stop you from slingshoting yourself over a small crest in to the bum in front having the rocker can give the ability to step back and whip the board around in a split second down the line and then slingshot yourself in to the  shoulder of a bump in front or behind and like we all know now down winding fast is not in a straight line its about connecting bumps.
Having this maneuverability just makes me smile the hole time im down winding that board dicking about like I used to on a longboard is just so much fun and by no means going slowly missing bumps or link between. Now if you are purely focused on speed then that's going to change things a bit but for me maneuverability is still way up on priorities for me.

yugi

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2014, 02:31:53 AM »
Ooooo… I like the nose on the 17’ V3. My Rogue Rage is very similar, the deck has almost no ski jump and the point is, err, very pointy. Obviously the game is to avoid the poke but when it does it just, err, pokes right through, following the hull curve to come up, and very little speed is brushed off. I also noticed the Bullet 17 (V1 at least) has a slight belly to the hull right up at the nose, also like the Rogue Rage, as opposed to the 14’s which stay concave up through the nose.

We’re still waiting for our long overdue big winds to try rudder steering along the line on the 2 new boards in our gang quiver. I can tell there’s a bit of a learning curve to it and the full effect probably takes some time before it kicks in. Us rudder nOObs all find it weird to have a fixed place for front foot. We have the reflex to move further back for quick turns (and pearl mitigation). I understand it may not be necessary but reflexes die hard. The rudder also gets in the way of where I’d want to stand when not down winding. Just different.

Area & Supuk welcome to come try the rudder boards. Winter is here so probably easier to plan in spring. A good powder day may trump a downwinder next few months.

Off-Shore

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2014, 07:12:33 AM »
I can tell there’s a bit of a learning curve to it and the full effect probably takes some time before it kicks in. Us rudder nOObs all find it weird to have a fixed place for front foot. We have the reflex to move further back for quick turns (and pearl mitigation). I understand it may not be necessary but reflexes die hard. The rudder also gets in the way of where I’d want to stand when not down winding. Just different.

Speaking from experience it takes time to get used to the steering. For me on my F16 v3 I tried at first to always have my front toes on the steering. Bad idea. Firstly this means having a narrower stance on the board. Secondly I found I got cramps in the calf of that leg. What I have found is to keep my front toes just to the outside of the steering mechanism is the best and most comfortable position. This allows a wider stance and since you do not need to have your toes always on the steering, you can just nudge the steering inboard to turn or move the foot to nudge the steering the other way. You will find over time (for me a year) that steering in this fashion becomes second nature and you don't even think about it. For me though, in that year of learning there was a lot of falling off and missed links. Not that I am any expert now. But 2 years in I hardly notice the steering mechanism or when I actually use it. A long road, but worth perservering for.

Oh. And pearling. JR taught me this great technique to avoid pearling without moving your feet from the near rudder position. Just squat and use the paddle to brace. Works a treat in most conditions. Using a rudder is really a different and let me say, more refined way of riding the glide, and when you get it right, is pure bliss... on steroids.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 07:24:13 AM by Off-Shore »
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2014, 08:22:22 AM »
Any size board is fun for a downwinder, and they all work in their own way. The Glide 14 was a big deal in the Gorge, and you still see a lot of them. I like to do runs on my surfboards. Maui is kind of a different animal. There have been all kinds of boards downwinding here, still are to some degree, but for the most part over the years the vastly predominant board has emerged to be SIC 16 or 17 foot boards with rudders. You see almost as many Bullet 17's on top of cars here as surfboards.

The main reason is hooking up swells. There's just nothing quite like them for linking up bumps. And then there's the competitive nature. Most of these folks do more than 100 downwind runs a year--some probably more than 200, and some of them have been doing them for more than seven years. Every run is a race. No matter what is said on the beach, no matter how zen everyone talks, every run is a race. Even if you're by yourself.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Argosi

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2014, 08:38:18 AM »
Any size board is fun for a downwinder, and they all work in their own way. The Glide 14 was a big deal in the Gorge, and you still see a lot of them. I like to do runs on my surfboards. Maui is kind of a different animal. There have been all kinds of boards downwinding here, still are to some degree, but for the most part over the years the vastly predominant board has emerged to be SIC 16 or 17 foot boards with rudders. You see almost as many Bullet 17's on top of cars here as surfboards.

The main reason is hooking up swells. There's just nothing quite like them for linking up bumps. And then there's the competitive nature. Most of these folks do more than 100 downwind runs a year--some probably more than 200, and some of them have been doing them for more than seven years. Every run is a race. No matter what is said on the beach, no matter how zen everyone talks, every run is a race. Even if you're by yourself.

So what boards are now preferred for downwinding in the Gorge? 

PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2014, 08:46:22 AM »
It's all over the map. Lots of SIC, but lots of flatwater race boards too. Hood River has an insane degree of SUP penetration and you see every flavor of board. The boards with local manufacturers and warehouses tend to dominate. Amundsen and Naish are both in the Gorge (Bingen) and the dominant retailer (Big Winds) carries about everything, even brands I've never heard of. But certainly starboard, naish, amundsen, SIC, M&M.

Competitive as hell there too, maybe even a little more so, but flatwater boards can be fast in the lulls or over in the eddies. And since everyone races flatwater events as well, their boards tend to be more flatwater oriented 14's.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

LaPerouseBay

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2014, 09:30:35 AM »

Bill H, really seemed to like it.  Says he got the best glides of his life, and he glides...alot!


Bill H. Is a real inspiration.  I think he's 65 or so and solid as a rock.  No extra flab anywhere.  Maybe 150 pounds.  He's taken a quantum leap in his downwinding over the past 5 or so years that I've known him.  He was on a 14 no rudder when I met him.  I was doing lot's of maliko's back then on my F-16 and outrigger.  I watched him struggle on the 14 and got him on an F-16, then in an outrigger.  He's really come on in the past 2 years.  Super fast, as SB and cove know.  He's very analytical, a retired airline captain.  He doesn't talk much about the extra work he does with his diet and off water exercise, but it shows.  He will be hauling ass on the water for another decade, easy.  Sharp guy, very humble.     

Anyhow, the board he paddles now is an F-16 V3.  I drove he and Kathy back up to their cars yesterday and listened as they talked about the prototype.  First off, it's plumbed for a regular foot.  He's not, so he never steered it. 

He said it's more stable than his F-16 V3.  He has to step back further on the F-16 to prevent a pearl that slows the board.  On the bullet, he could just poke it in and it didn't slow.  He really liked that.  Also, when he really had to go back far to surf the big board (only a few times)  it surfed very well, without having to stand on or behind the rudder.   

Again, he only had to take ONE step back with one foot, to control it.  On his other boards he says he needs to move around more.   He really liked that balance point and surfy action of such a huge board on the south shore's tighter swells.  He said maliko would be a different story because it's so wild over there. 

I really like the comments in this thread from supuk, yugi and off-shore.  Very similar to my experiences in a boat on the south shore and learning steering on standups and boats. 

Go across those swells everyone!  That's the most fun, and as SB is proving, the fastest.  You may go slower at first overall, but it works better in the long run.  It's a special skill set to go across waves - in any craft.  That skill set has to be strong when the real glides open up and you accelerate over a bump in front.  The payoff is there, but if you miss, it's a waste of energy.  Balance, power, speed, in that order. 

SB is doing it quicker than most because he's goofy on offshore days, and grew up surfing...  And he got a boat and sees those underlying swells that have more potential...  Like Riggs says, surf the small bumps and the big ones will take care of themselves.  It's not easy surfing those small bumps is it!     
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Eagle

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2014, 10:22:33 AM »
From LPB - "Go across those swells everyone!  That's the most fun" ..... "It's a special skill set" ..... "Balance, power, speed, in that order."  ^^^^^
Fast is FUN!   8)
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PonoBill

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2014, 11:13:36 AM »
I think one of the reasons rudder boards start being extra fun is banked turns. Hard to do with a fixed rudder unless you're JR or CB, but kind of standard with a rudder. The turn set that really gets my pulse pounding is going straight in a big drop to gain speed, then flat turn towards the bigger face to pick up vector speed, then step on the downhill rail and bank on the face to chase the bump ahead. Got a lot of them yesterday, and when Cove passed me he was in a hard bank that made his F16 live up to it's name.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

yugi

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Re: Love That New Board Smell
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2014, 12:51:15 PM »
Tell us more about the V3. I like the nose and totally get it.

Is it narrower? Tail looks similar to others. Does it have a bit more kick in the tail? What makes it tricky?

 


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