SIC X14 PRO vs SIC BulletV2 ???

[Rideordie]

I am the proud owner of an X14 SCC (the 28.5 inch one).  I love the board for many reasons.  However, I would like it to be a bit faster so that I can carry more speed and make me a bit more competitive in the few races that I run each year.  I am 5 foot 9 inches and 200 lbs and I able able to average about 5.1 MPH (max) over a six mile run on a very flat day.  I mostly paddle large lakes with mixed conditions and occasional trips to inland/coastal races. I really like this brand and would prefer to add another SIC to the quiver.  I may have a chance to pick up an X14 PRO, which is 26 inches.  I have not had a chance to test one.  I can find nothing in the SIC catalog that shows the weight handling capability of this board.  I read that the volume is 253 liters.  My current board has been quoted as 296 or 280 liters, and it floats me with lots of room to spare.  My guess is 280 liters.  Anyone 200 lbs or over riding this board??  I have also considered the BulletV2, but again no test ride opportunity.  I have read a lot of great things about this board being fast and versatile, etc.  I read it is 265 liters of volume and 27.25 wide.  From the sounds of it, the Bullet V2 might be better suited to my size, but will it be a faster board than my current X14?  I would REALLY appreciate any feedback that is out there.  Thanks!!!!                 

[PonoBill]

I've paddled both. I'm 240, so my experience isn't very relevant. I found the X14 Pro to be difficult in choppy downwind conditions but relatively easy to paddle in flatwater. It's pretty flat, and the tail is narrow. The sweet spot is small at my weight. It's fast if you get the trim right.

The Bullet 14 V2 is more comfortable for me. I could do a reasonable downwind run on this board. As you would expect, its not as fast as the X14. It seems to carry a lot of volume forward. I felt like I couldn't get far enough forward to really trim the one I rode (steering).

Neither of them are a board for me, but I've seen plenty of my friends in the 190-200 weight range using either as an all around board. As designed, and true in fact, the X14 is a better flatwater board, the Bullet is a great downwind board.

[raf]

I don't think the V2 will be a speed upgrade.  It'll be an all around upgrade, but u want to go faster, not "more" overall.  I think the x-14 Pro is doable at 200lbs.  Thats about the limit.  At 210 I'd go with the board you already have.  One of the guys who works here uses the x-14 (28" one) and he is about 205lbs.  He tried the X-14 Pro and liked it, thinks its a little faster, but because we do so much open ocean paddling, has decided the wider board is a better fit.

[Area 10]

I have an x14 and a BulletV2. The V2 is a downwind board not a flat water race board. It is very fast indeed in flat water for a downwind board, but it's not going to be faster than a good dedicated flat water racer. I'm assuming however by "flat water" you mean inland lakes, canals, rivers etc. In the sea things get a lot more complicated.

At the stage you are at you will probably be surprised how little extra speed over a long distance you get from moving to a narrower race board. I'm considering getting an X14 Pro as well. But I don't expect to be more than a couple of seconds a mile faster on it, and I might in fact even be slower, at least initially. The stability of the X14 allows you to commit to your stroke. It also tires your legs less so you have more energy for paddling. And it will kick turn better for me than a narrower board.

If you want to do better in races it will be most effective to train harder and smarter rather than try to buy yourself speed.

[PonoBill]

Sad but true. I'd love to buy some speed, but really the only way is to train harder, lose some weight, and improve technique. With all that in hand the better board performs, but if it's a ten percent difference that would be huge, whereas guys who are optimizing everything can hold 7+ mph.

I just saw a new prototype board at Mark Raaphorst's shop--something between a Bullet 17 V1 and a V2. The 17 V2 has a flatter rocker and a bulbous nose, which helps it recover from poking but slams the brakes on when you do. The new prototype looks just right. Mark's going to let me borrow it next week when there's supposed to be some wind. I'm fairly sure I'm going to be "Buying speed" again. the only question is will I be able to discipline myself long enough to wait for the molded hollow version, or will I buy an EPS and get it sooner.

Not really about speed. More about just being a Junkie.

[Rideordie]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with your thoughts, except at some point board width does in fact limit your speed. That is why the pros ride narrow boards. Agree that balance and power to the paddle are key. With this shape, I am 100% sure I can go more narrow, if it will float me. I just traded in a 26 1/8 Javelin, so I understand how an unstable board can rob your power and endurance. I think it will be interesting to see how the X14 Pro feels. If it is anything close to what I imagine a narrow X14 would be and floats me well I should be happy. Good advice about the Bullet V2. I already have a V2 Glide to ride downwind. If I do pick up the X 14 Pro, I will be sure to let you know how it goes. My prediction is I would drop closer to 30 seconds a mile. At least, u am hoping so.

[Eagle]

Can add that we would expect your X14 to be slightly faster than a Bullet 14v2.  Based on our usage the 14v2 pushes water and feels sticky on flat - but once DW it switches gears and feels like it is on slick ice.  It seems to catch every little bump effortlessly but you must dial in the correct trim.

Certainly get the PRO over the 14v2 for a speed boost if you want to stay with SIC for races. You should gain a considerable amount of time vs your X14 if balance is not an issue.

[Rideordie]

Well, I did purchase the X 14 Pro in February and I have been enjoying it since.  I have compared my previous times compiled over several hundred miles to what I am getting now with the X14 Pro and I am happy to report that I have seen an average 7% in speed over 21 recent paddles.  My average mile has dropped by 50 seconds!!    These miles have been during very windy conditions and I am getting faster.  Just set a personal best yesterday in 8 mph winds versus my prior record in dead calm.  When the dust settles, I expect that I will average about 10% faster than my previous X 14 SCC. That is 50 seconds per mile faster.  Stability is good enough that I quickly switched back to the smallish 8 inch stock fin.  So, looks like we were right Eagle.  Area 10, I hope that you have the same experience if you purchase one!! 
         

[Area 10]

It sounds like you are progressing as a paddler. A 10% increase in speed would mean that someone who can for instance manage 5.0mph average over. 5 miles would average 5.5mph after changing board. That just is not going to happen with a change in a board width of a couple of inches. A 10% improvement is huge.

It is very difficult to accurately compare board speeds. Different people will be faster on different boards and in different conditions. Even just believing that one board is faster the another can make it so. And spending mega-dollars on a new board gives a good incentive to believe you will be faster. The best way is probably to get two or more paddlers of equal or almost equal ability and keep swapping boards. But even that method is prone to many sources of artefact.

So, your narrower board probably is faster, not least because it makes a good stroke easier to achieve, and especially when going upwind. And I am glad that you have managed such a rewarding speed increase. But the amount of that which is due to the board is likely to be no more than about 2-3% rather than 10. That is still significant if you want to win races. But probably most of the improvement has come from you, and getting a narrower board was a symptom of that improvement not a cause of it. I have time trialled myself on many supposedly "faster" narrower (and tippier) boards in perfectly flat water and found, much to my disappointment, to be no faster on them, and sometimes even slower. I have seen a similar thing with several other people. So IMO it would be misleading to give people the impression that if they buy a board that is 2" narrower they will find they instantly go 10% faster. That will lead to a lot of disappointment for a great many people. But congratulations on your progress as a paddler, and on your improved balance.

[Eagle]

The PRO is an excellent board - have fun with it.  A friend is currently storing one of Lina's boards and Georges has been doing excellent on that board too.  Best 

[Rideordie]

Area 10, I am not a novice. And have competed in several races. Heading to Carolina Cup to race in two weeks. I put in over 500 miles a year paddling. This is my sixth board. It is a fast and fairly stable shape. I have previously owned a 2011 Javelin which was 26 1/8 and it was tippy, and I was balance checking too much to really power it up. An experience similar to yours. I can use my full power on this board without the drama. Yes, the more narrow width does fit my stroke better. I have put close to 100 miles on it now. All on the watch and I am killing it, compared to my prior bard and getting faster with more time on it. My prior board SIC X 14 SCC is 28.5 inches, so I dropped 2.5 inches in width. I am not suggesting that others will get the same results. Just sharing my experience and data. It is working for me. In my opinion, it is an exceptional board and I have tested many.

[Area 10]

Area 10, I am not a novice. And have competed in several races. Heading to Carolina Cup to race in two weeks. I put in over 500 miles a year paddling. This is my sixth board. It is a fast and fairly stable shape. I have previously owned a 2011 Javelin which was 26 1/8 and it was tippy, and I was balance checking too much to really power it up. An experience similar to yours. I can use my full power on this board without the drama. Yes, the more narrow width does fit my stroke better. I have put close to 100 miles on it now. All on the watch and I am killing it, compared to my prior bard and getting faster with more time on it. My prior board SIC X 14 SCC is 28.5 inches, so I dropped 2.5 inches in width. I am not suggesting that others will get the same results. Just sharing my experience and data. It is working for me. In my opinion, it is an exceptional board and I have tested many.

Yes, I am sure it is an exceptional board. I have a x14 and would like to get the Pro too. But I am worried about the frank myths that propagate around the sport, egged on by the brand managers. One of these is this sort of thing - that dropping even 2.5" inches in width will result in a huge difference in speed. For nearly everyone it will not, and they will be disappointed. It sounds like you are experienced enough that you have been able to exploit the drop in size. And perhaps getting a narrower board came at a time when you also started taking your training more seriously.

I also have paddled hundreds of miles. Thousands, in fact. I have 15 SUPs and I have owned many more. I paddle in a wide variety of conditions and I swap boards with other people and demo as many as I can. I record every outing with GPS etc so I have years of data. Some of it is collected quite formally under race conditions when I am training the race team I paddle with. And I have NEVER seen anyone increase in speed in flat water by as much as 10% by just going to a narrower board. That is the kind of difference that most people might get going from a 12-6 to a UL class board, not going narrower on a board the same length.

So I do appreciate your caveats. And I do love SIC boards (I have 3). But I'm not for one minute expecting that when and if I get a x14 Pro, I will suddenly be 10 % faster. After the number of miles I have done, I am looking for increments of one or two percent at best. Hell, I'll even take a fraction of one percent!

By contrast, an increase a speed of 5-10% is perfectly achievable for most weekend warriors by improvements in training and technique IMO. You don't need an expensive board to be fast. A friend of mine who is essentially a weekend warrior came within a whisker of a sponsored rider of the same age at a 13 mile sea race recently. The sponsored rider was on the latest and greatest super-narrow Fanatic. My friend was on a rather battered 28" wide Mistral M1 that he had picked up secondhand for next to nothing. And a couple of years ago I came more than 5 minutes ahead of any other 12-6 in an 8 mile race when I was paddling a 30" wide old shape Fanatic 12-6. In fact I beat all the 14s as well including some narrow ones, and young adults half my age. Yet I am just an average old guy with no connections to the sport and no sponsorship etc. I just enjoy paddling and get out whenever I can.

I am worried that people coming into the sport, especially impressionable youngsters, will be put off by being told that you have to paddle a crazy expensive and crazy tippy board in order to be competitive. That just isn't true IMO. So I think we all have a duty to the sport to be cautious in our claims about the performance increases that equipment changes can bring us. In reality it's nearly all about the paddler, training, and technique.

[dano59]

It's all about having fun, and exerciseing at the same time.
I'm in the 50 plus age too and ordered  an x14 pro if it makes me faster
Great if not I won't loose sleep over it. I do about 8 events a year encluding
The bop......last year was the best ever because I alway have fun.....I'm also
200 lbs don't worry about the newbees they will find there way....

[gorgebob]

The PRO 14 is fairly flat rocker and I think it is best suited for the 150 to 180lbs. The Allstar 28, Amundson TRX  and the Lahui kai Race might be better choices to handle stability and speed.

[Rideordie]

Area 10, I can appreciate what you are saying and your level of experience and paddling prowess.  I also appreciate that you are trying to protect the uneducated from "buying" improved performance.  I agree that it is 90% Indian and 10% arrows.   We can interpret the why of the results, but they are what they are.  I was a bit surprised at the stats myself. My Average Training Speed has increased by 7% , since I bought the x 14 Pro just over two months ago.  Additonally, I am progresively getting even faster, and so I do hope and expect it to increase further.  Time will tell.  I am now smoking my training partners that used to be beat me.  Maybe a portion of that IS improved stroke, as you noted and not the board per se.  It makes some sense and I expected that, as I have paddled a narrow board before and I knew the stroke mechnics were better for me on a 26.  So, the more narrow board could be significantly contributing to my improved power, due to the improved body mechanics.  It is less of a reach for me to get out over the paddle and I don't have to shift my feet laterally or lean out as much.  The board is realtively stable, so I can fully power up the paddle.  I do also agree with Bill that the board has a relatively narrow trim balance point, which I think is due to the tail rocker.  Just takes some time on the water to figure it out.  It is similar to the X 14 in that respect.  Georgebob, at 200 lbs, I may be a little outside of the weight target for the board, but it floats me very well and dry.  It handles well for me, I am faster and happy.  Ticked all the boxes.  Just my opinion.