Author Topic: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!  (Read 21369 times)

linter

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2014, 02:49:33 AM »
southwesterly: hammer pig?  that's exactly what i thought when i first saw it, a hammer taken to extremes.  maybe wardog should file a suit against the guy?  (and they do live in the same town and know each other.)  anyway, my name for it is the ultra-light fat-ass pig.  not what i wanted at all.

slatchj: i rode it yesterday, at the same time i surfed the lead-weighted L41.  loved the L41, couldn't really ride the ultra light fat-ass pig.  will add lead to it and see if that helps me figure out how much is the fatness and how much is the lack of weight.

gorgeb: this guy has been shaping boards for at least since the very early 70s.  he's known for one shape in particular, which has his name attached to it, so i'd think he knows how to make replicas.  otoh, he's got to be pretty old by now, so maybe, sadly, that accounts for some of the problems i've had.


Dwight (DW)

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2014, 04:35:23 AM »
This thread touches on a sore spot for me, so rant is on  :P

When I see old time respected shapers mow foam, then take a couple of measurements here and there, I cringe. Engineers see the world differently. The old ways are not accurate enough.

When I see average Joe's tell a shaper I want this, that, and this, and the shaper says sure thing. I'll take your money. Hope you like it. I cringe.

I try to steer everyone into standard proven shapes and only allow the slightest of tweaks, if any at all. My conscious doesn't allow experiments on anyone but myself.

Same applies to construction.

But, I do have the luxury of not needing the income. It's a labor of love and fun for me.
 
Rant off  ;D


SlatchJim

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 07:11:06 AM »
The solution is simple, Have Kirk weight up a simsup for you and sell the V-2 piggy at auction.  Craigs list needs something that starts "One Terrific Pig" in the title.

spookini

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2014, 07:32:50 AM »
Not to make light of the situation, but I have to think somewhere in Africa, there's a kid who would love that board.

Or.. perhaps Terre Haute.   :-X
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 07:54:33 AM by spookini »
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mrbig

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2014, 07:58:19 AM »
Linter - Completely unacceptable. Looks like he made a tandem Susquatch SUPPAPIGGY. Not exactly what you wanted.

Did you pay with a card? You did not receive what you paid for. Possible leverage in a conversation with the shaper. I am sure you have received lots of advice. The less anger you express increases your chances of him not digging in his heels.

But expressing to him clearly the ramifications and possible financial loss he will incurr if he doesn't do the right thing need to be expressed clearly.

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« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 08:06:10 AM by mrbig »
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Bean

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2014, 09:06:25 AM »
Not to make light of the situation, but I have to think somewhere in Africa, there's a kid who would love that board.

Or.. perhaps Terre Haute.   :-X

Cool, Corn Flakes can still make it out my nose ;D

Linter, like most of us I'm sure you do not have an unlimited budget, but have you considered working with a local shaper, someone who will keep you involved in the process each step of the way?

linter

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2014, 09:19:28 AM »
  bean: the only local shaper i wouldn't trust, either.

  like i said, the shaper made an initial stab at v2 but did it with the wrong glass and put on a vector net deck patch instead of a carbon one, etc etc.  so the board i have is actually like V3.

   in my email to him, i asked him if the first V2 was shaped per my specs in terms of thickness and resemblance to V1.  if it was, and if he'd add another layer of glass to bring it up to the proper weight, i told him i'd take that, and live with the vector net, etc.  i think that'd work ok for me.  but i fully well expect him either to tell me to take a hike or to not respond at all.  we shall see ....

freetobeme

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2014, 11:00:07 AM »
This is bizzare and I would def be pissed.

I would build my case with referencing previous emails and tell him it's not acceptable. Don't make it personal and take out any feeling words. Just state the facts using dates, pictures and most of all use his own words whenever possible.

At the end of the day, I assume you would not continue this relationship and just want a finished product based on your expectations and then be done with him. Thus, be kind until you can't be. If this does not work take a few days to think how you want to be viewed as a dissatisfied client and behave accordingly. Karma will take of the rest.

For the rest of us vicarious ZONERS too bad Judge Whopner is not still on tv  :D
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 11:24:53 AM by freetobeme »
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supsurf-tw

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2014, 05:53:34 PM »
If you're unhappy with your board and the way it was shaped blame yourself for making a poor choice of shapers.

No surfboards no surfing. No shapers, no surfboards.
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freetobeme

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2014, 07:11:51 PM »
If you're unhappy with your board and the way it was shaped blame yourself for making a poor choice of shapers.

No surfboards no surfing. No shapers, no surfboards.

Ouch. This might be too simplistic. You could also say no surfers no shapers. And so on and so forth. But, as you are a shaper I could see why you might pipe up here. Im sure not all clients are great to work with. 

I also agree there is always some degree of mutual blame in communication/behavior whenever a business transaction goes foul. And on a personal level, yes i would def search where i had started the ball rolling and what my part was in the process (shaper choice, communication, expectations, etc) to learn from the situation. However, this particular incident is still a definitive shaper issue assuming the OP has his facts right. A shaper can't just go ahead and make something way off the mark and expect to have a happy customer or get paid. He is in a service industry after all. 

Yes, the OP would have been better served to have stated "shaper" instead of adding an "S" in the subject heading, but I don't think he is really throwing out a blanket statement about all shapers here. Merely just bringing his emotion to the table about a recent transaction with a particular shaper who did him wrong and looking for guidance on how to proceed. Of course non-shapers outnumber shapers on the Zone 100 to 1 and thus would most likely side with the OP, but I also know that Zoners are a cut above the typical forum rats and sometimes a spade is just a spade.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 07:16:54 PM by freetobeme »
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pdxmike

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2014, 07:21:35 PM »
Even buying something off the shelf can be daunting.  Buying something before you can see it takes guts.  It's an honor to be in the position in which customers/clients commit their trust and money to you without their being able to see the end product.  Along with that honor comes a responsibility to listen and communicate with the customer/client.  If the customer has been clear with what he or she wants, there should be no surprises at the end, because the designer should have stated why he would not be able to do--or would not recommend doing--what the customer has requested.  If the customer hasn't been clear, the designer should ask for clarification before proceeding.  The designer also has a responsibility to watch out for the interests of the customer, and make sure he or she understands the design before it is built, since the customer is almost always far less experienced in the process than the designer. 

RATbeachrider

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2014, 07:47:11 PM »
well, at least that's how i feel about my shaper after getting my new supig board.  i mean, really, is it that difficult to listen to what a customer wants and freaking do it?
  this is the second board based on the same shape he's made for me.  V1 was perfect except it weighs 33 lbs and i wanted something roughly the same but around 26 lbs or 27 lbs w/ fin and pad, which is what i told him.  Also, i wanted it a little bit thinner overall.  I gave him some other specs, too, about glassing schedule, use of vector net, etc.
  well, he totally ignored these other specs for the first iteration of V2.  he sent me pix, i told him what was wrong, he said okay he'll redo it.
  so he redid it and it looked good in the photos and so i paid up and it was sent to me.  I received it two days ago and the second i saw it and picked it up, my heart sank.
  first, it weighs 22 lbs or, with fin and pad, 23 lbs.  no no no no!  i kind of figured this was going to happen, just from something he said after the board had been shipped, but i was hoping against hope i was wrong.  i wasn't.  crap.
  and then, far from being a little thinner overall, it's ... wait for it, wait for it ... 1.5" to 2" ***thicker*** overall, with the back third of the board fat like the fat back of a waveski.  see the photos. holy crap!  how is this possible?  wtf? 
  my mind is more than boggled.  i just don't get it.  i'm steaming mad but what can i do?  he's got my money and i have a board that is not what i ordered.  i mean, how'm i supposed to sink the rail/tail of a board that's over 5.5" thick, closer to 6", I bet, if my calipers opened far enough to reach the center.
   i've written him an email expressing my unhappiness but haven't sent it.  my heart is just too heavy right now.  argggg!
   in the photos, the new board is on top, the old one on the bottom.
   btw / all the specs were sent to him in writing and discussed on the phone.
   

Oh boy ... that is not a board!

If you paid by credit card, then call the CC company and file a complaint.  The payment may be reversed.

In writing to the CC company and to the shaper, you should reference the specifications and changes that were made with exhibits (original design by you, original pictures sent by shaper to you, changes that were made after you both spoke and pictures of the changed made by the shaper after the both spoke and whereby you agreed to the design).  Be as clear and concise as possible in the letter.  Good luck.

OUTSIDEWAVE

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2014, 08:24:18 PM »
Oh wow. The boards are so different. Get him to take the board  back and get you money. Back.  Then find a reputable shaper. You trust who can put the board on a computer and generate a 3d pict.  Next tweak the pic until it is exactly as you want the shape. Then  drive there and watch him shape it. Doesn't matter if it's 2-6 hours away drive there work with him till it is exactly. How you want it.  I am sure you can find a shaper within that distance.   Or work with some body very reputable  like out west. Pm me for my suggestions if u like
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PonoBill

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2014, 08:57:53 PM »
That is one fugly board.

I get TW being irritated by the headline, but A. that is one fugly board, and B. That board is fugly.

I've worked with shapers that listen to what you say and then build you what they think you need. But that board isn't even close. and did I mention that it's fugly?
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55NSup

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Re: F@#W$##!!!ing shapers!
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2014, 01:33:52 AM »
Shocked.

The longer I'm doing this, the more I'm shocked by the "old ways". 

CAD, engineers, etc, if you want meticulous repeatable shapes.

I'm art trained industrial designer, but some really good design comes from people trained as "engineers" adopting design thinking.

 


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