Author Topic: Adding weight to a SUP ...  (Read 16556 times)

linter

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Adding weight to a SUP ...
« on: October 22, 2014, 04:10:29 AM »
  i like my boards heavy and have both an old one that's too light and a new one on the way that i fear might be too light, too, so i've been thinking about ways of adding weight.  in a pm, dw gave me the idea of lead, so i've got some thin lead sheets coming my way ( three 12"x12" pieces = 10 lbs) that i plan on covering with plasti-dip to hopefully keep me from further destroying the environment, etc, etc.  my idea is to tape them to the top of the board for experimentation purposes and then wedge em under the pad if i like what i feel.
  but what i can't wrap my mind around is where to put the sheets for proper balance or even if proper balance can be achieved.  my guess is put em side by side in the exact center of the board, kind of on either side of the handle.  but do i want  em placed side to side or front to back or?
  i know this whole thing is probably misguided, and maybe i should just take the boards to a glasser and get a new layer of cloth added, but i want to try this first, see what happens.
   thoughts, anyone?

stoneaxe

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 06:36:13 AM »
Weird idea Erik but it could give some interesting results. Cut them into smaller pieces, maybe 1" x 6" and distribute evenly. Some monster duct tape should hold...maybe try a couple pieces first. You'll be able to shift the center of gravity on the board....be interesting to see how shifting it front or rear would effect it. More weight in the tail make for easier nose rides?
Bob

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linter

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 07:00:10 AM »
thanks, bob.  yeah, i just can't conceptualize in my brain how various distribution schemes will effect the ride.  ideally, i'd like to have the effect be neutral but what placements where will make it so?  and, of course, i will mess around with various other placements.
   monster tape -- great idea.  that stuff sticks!
   i know that the tow-in crowd adds lead weight to their boards at times, mostly in the nose, i think.  adds stability, which is what i'm after, too.
   i do like the idea of perhaps trying more weight in the back.  could be beneficial not only to noserides but also to on-wave pivot turns.
   i have a thin yoga mat that i might cut up and tape to the board to create a kind of envelope for the lead.
   got other ideas?  love to hear em.
   and hopefully your bro, an entire brain trust unto himself, will weigh in, too, ha ha.  bet he's got some thoughts.

J-Bird

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 07:59:08 AM »
So Stoneaxe recommends affixing sheets of lead to a board using duct tape.  I gotta weigh in and say this sounds like a really bad idea.

supuk

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 08:21:38 AM »
sounds crazy to me! The % differance compared to your body mass is going to be so tinny by adding small bits of lead it is pointless. You would be far better just learning move your feet on the board which is key in paddle boarding.  Toe in surfers have foot straps so can not do that easy plus there boards don't weigh anything like what most sup do to start with.

If the board isn't doing what you want its more likely you are not on the board in the right place or that you are not on the right shape board for the conditions , adding weight wont directly make it more stable but it will make it sit lower making it feel like it has less volume which give more stable so effectively your board has to much volume there for get a board with less volume.

outcast

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 08:37:06 AM »
I don't think weight is all that bad in bigger stuff especially with offshore wind, but yeah i would add that weight in glass.

OTOH, i think the carbon boards rip because there is less "Swing weight"....weight you can whip around....Loosing 10 lbs won't help that at all,  and personally having owned one of the first light epoxy longboards you can def paddle/accelerate for a wave quicker with a lighter board.

I think the bigger gains would be with the right shape....More pulled in nose, more V.

I have two boards that work well in bigger (PSH Ripper, and a GL Sweetie), but frankly i wish both were carbon.

Stoney is not too far off, if you wanna play, do it in a reversible way....
Too many for the rack
Some in the shack
Some under decks
Some have straps

SlatchJim

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 08:45:31 AM »
Interesting idea Erik but I STRONGLY suggest you do not use lead sheets.  Here's why:

Lead is a RCRA (federal) Hazardous Waste, and a state hazardous waste at even lower concentrations in some places, and by adding it to the board, your board will become a hazardous waste when you're done with it.  Disposal would cost roughly $500 (properly), not including transportation. 

Rip those boards down the middle and add a redwood stringer.  Add steel plating under your deck pad.  There must be a dozen other ways to get weight on a board.  All of them are a hell of a lot cheaper, if you really want to do things the right way.  I'm thinking that it would be easier to sell them and have one built with 2 pound foam and a half dozen redwood stringers.



Bean

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2014, 08:48:14 AM »
... where to put the sheets for proper balance or even if proper balance can be achieved.

My gut tells me that any added weight should go as low as possible and as centered as possible. But, where is that?  The center of gravity constantly changes as we move up and down and side to side on the board.


gorgebob

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2014, 08:50:27 AM »
Weight in the nose would make it punch into waves with less hobby horse.(Americas cup foul) Weight on the bottom would give you the most stability, reverse of putting them on deck. Weight outside rails will reduce tippy twitch. Ballast tanks built in would be my suggestion.
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linter

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2014, 08:51:41 AM »
   let's not debate the need for more weight.  in my case, for various neurological balance issues i don't want to get into, i need what weight does for me.  the only question i have is the one i asked, about thoughts for where to position the lead sheets for best results.

  supak: i'm talking about adding roughly 5 to 10 lbs of weight.  i've ridden a 20 lb board and another one in a vaguely similar shape that weighed 31 lbs.  loved the heavier one, couldn't deal with the lighter one, case closed.

slatchJ: wow.  didn't know that about lead.  not going to do the stringer thing, etc.  if anything, i'll just add another layer of cloth and glass to what i already have.  i am going to use the lead sheets on a temporary, taped-on basis, however, just to see what effect the weight has on the boards.

bean: i hear ya and you're right, that's what i'm trying to figure out.

gorgebob: oh gawd ....

Bean

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2014, 09:00:59 AM »
Just keep in mind that a weight distribution that works for you in lead might not be duplicated by adding additional glass. 

surfinJ

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 09:05:41 AM »
I like my longer shapes heavy. Some of my favorites are those heavily repaired
ones, noticeable weight gains.  Broken in middle, that kind of thing.

Adding weight like your planning may work but might feel funny?  Middle to rear weight gain adds nice solidity without affecting balance fore to aft I've found.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2014, 09:38:17 AM »
Weight in the wrong place can throw a board out of trim. Make it surf messed up.

I say this, because I know of one production board (expensive all carbon and tail heavy like lead) board that does exactly that. I suspect the actual model the team rider uses is balanced.

So I'd stick with lead near the handle for the first test.


supthecreek

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2014, 09:52:46 AM »
Interesting dilemma
Historical note:
At the 1965 Tom Morey Invitational (Noseriding Contest)
Rusty Miller glassed 2 bricks onto the tail of his board to help him get longer noserides. He ended up knocking them off with a rock, halfway through the contest... apparently that theory was flawed.

I would think that weight would have the least adverse effect if applied near the stringer in the center of the board... although I have doubts that any added weight will achieve the desired results.
Sell the board... have a new one made with specific weight being a non negotiable parameter.   

I have a question that has always bugged me.

Is it possible to differentiate board weight + rider weight?

Examples:

Board weight =       20 lbs
Rider weight=       180 lbs
Weight on water= 200 lbs

Wetsuit adds            10 lbs
Weight on water = 210 lbs

OR:

Rider weight =       180 lbs
New board =           30 lbs
Weight on water = 210lbs

I know that if you are throwing the board up into the lips, taking YOUR weight off... the lighter board will be easier to maneuver.... but

In Linters case, his weight will be on top of the board at all times.... will the added wetsuit weight have the same effect as adding weight to the board?

J-Bird

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Re: Adding weight to a SUP ...
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 09:55:59 AM »
sounds crazy to me! The % differance compared to your body mass is going to be so tinny by adding small bits of lead it is pointless. You would be far better just learning move your feet on the board which is key in paddle boarding.  Toe in surfers have foot straps so can not do that easy plus there boards don't weigh anything like what most sup do to start with.

If the board isn't doing what you want its more likely you are not on the board in the right place or that you are not on the right shape board for the conditions , adding weight wont directly make it more stable but it will make it sit lower making it feel like it has less volume which give more stable so effectively your board has to much volume there for get a board with less volume.

Linter you shouldn't get testy because people are giving you suggestions, and don't overlook the right answer, which was what supuk gave you (see above quote).

 


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