Water

[Admin]

Do you like using yourself as a lab rat?  Have you guys ever tried drinking only water for a few months? 

With diabetes being prevelant in the family and with sugar increasingly making me feel disgustingly sour and hung over, I must have been searching around the web for sugar related info enough that I started to get served all kinds of sugar related news.  Of interest were articles stating that the avergae American dude drinks between 450 and 550 calories daily (depending on which source you believe) and that almost all of those calories come from sugar or convert to sugar.  Also that Joe average consumes just over 2600 calories a day (this time the data is from U of M - my alma mater - so that part is clearly 100% accurate).  So, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% total calories getting swigged down.

Then an experiment where a group of test subjects were served 400 calories of liquid in the morning and another group was fed 400 of solid food.  The group that drank the calories went on to eat their normal diet during the day as if no extra calories had been consumed while the group that ate the extra calories ate 300 calories less that their normal diet.  The conclusion being that our minds make little or no adjustment for calories that we drink.

Then all of the eat your fruit drink your veggies articles which can pretty quickly convince you that 12 oz of OJ or a 12 oz smoothie is just as bad if not worse than 12 oz of Coke.

Sooooo, I wanted to see how it would be to replace everything I had been drinking with water.  No juice, no smoothies, no alcohol, no dairy, no soft drinks, nada.  Just water...and to change nothing else.  Eat exactly the same as I always have.

Whooo. 

Not preaching a life change or something for everyone, but if you don't mind sacrificing some things you enjoy for a while this might be an eye opener. 

[PonoBill]

Okay, I'm in. I'm on the wagon anyway because I can't handle alcohol anymore. Two glasses of wine and I'm up at two ayem with a hangover headache. Beer still seems fine, but probably isn't. I won't quit coffee, but I'll ditch everything else. Won't be that hard, I live with a diabetic, so there aren't any juices and soft drinks in out house except the horrid juiceboxes Diane keeps to deal with low blood sugar episodes. I'd still probably be surprised at how much of my caloric intake is liquid.

Did you intentionally increase your water intake? I think that would have a pretty strong effect even with everything else kept the same. If nothing else your body uses energy to warm it up.

[Admin]

I read that Black coffee or unsweetened tea were actually helpful.  I didn't quit cofee either.   

I have just been drinking water when thirsty.  I read that diets that increase water more than modestly can dilute electrolytes and make you feel a bit weak.  I also read that diets where people try to drink extra water to replace food often end short as they make people feel uncomfortable and just a bit bit pissed off.  A bunch of the stuff I read took the approach of "what would you eat if you you found an extra 450 calories in your daily food budget" but I haven't gone that route or really found the need.  Losing weight was not a goal of mine.  I haven't found myself needing to eat any more than usual, but I do usually pack in a lot .  That said I am down 13 lbs in 3 months. 

It is basically just removing calories that are not satisfying hunger or benefiting strength or health in any way (rather, hurting both in almost all instances). 

[PonoBill]

Christ on a crutch, what kind of body fat percentage are you at? Two?

"I do usually pack in a lot ." No shit? Anyone that has seen Admin eat is rolling on the floor over that. I just watch in awe and wonder.

[Admin]

I don't know what % but I do know I am eating as much as ever.  I woke up at 172 this AM so I may need to pack in a another chicken .  I figure I was drinking about 400 calories so even at my calorie intake that is still a solid percentage overall that has now gone missing.  The big change I am noticing, though is that the gross feeling in my stomach is gone and my energy level is higher and smoother.  With the improved energy and lighter weight I feel like I am excercising with someone elses body.  It is pretty cool. 

[pdxmike]

Of course saying you "woke up at 172" could be a sign your mind is going.  That can happen if you let your weight drop more than 0:15 per week. 

[Admin]

Of course saying you "woke up at 172" could be a sign your mind is going.  That can happen if you let your weight drop more than 0:15 per week.

I meant to say $1.72

For me only losing 0:15 a week would be a radical improvement.  Please refer to the Grace Slick thread.

[tribalthunder]

Here's what works for me. I'm Vegan since 1990 and I start everyday with a Green Smoothie. For the rest of the day, I drink water and some tea and the last few years Kombucha tea. I don't care what study you read about smoothies being as bad as a Coke, are just plain wrong. Nature over artificial crap every time. Drink water and you can't go wrong and when you need some energy or after a workout put back the vitamins and minerals you sweat out with a smoothie. I'm glad to hear your positive results with water, it's what we're supposed to drink most of the time.

[Admin]

Here's what works for me. I'm Vegan since 1990 and I start everyday with a Green Smoothie. For the rest of the day, I drink water and some tea and the last few years Kombucha tea. I don't care what study you read about smoothies being as bad as a Coke, are just plain wrong. Nature over artificial crap every time. Drink water and you can't go wrong and when you need some energy or after a workout put back the vitamins and minerals you sweat out with a smoothie. I'm glad to hear your positive results with water, it's what we're supposed to drink most of the time.

What's in your Green smoothie?

[tribalthunder]

Here's what works for me. I'm Vegan since 1990 and I start everyday with a Green Smoothie. For the rest of the day, I drink water and some tea and the last few years Kombucha tea. I don't care what study you read about smoothies being as bad as a Coke, are just plain wrong. Nature over artificial crap every time. Drink water and you can't go wrong and when you need some energy or after a workout put back the vitamins and minerals you sweat out with a smoothie. I'm glad to hear your positive results with water, it's what we're supposed to drink most of the time.

What's in your Green smoothie?

Baby Spinach ,banana, blueberries, flax seeds, spirulina, multi green powder,coconut oil, water.     Sometimes I use other greens like Kale, Romaine......or change up the fruit, but that is my go to recipe.

[Admin]

Hi TT,

I completely agree with your nature over artificial diet.  As a natural food Vegan you are approaching this from a very different diet than most of us are and I am stoked that it is working!  I was interested in the don't drink your calories advice that has some traction and wanted to give it a clean shot by switching to water only.  It has been very interesting to the point where I actually broke code and discussed diet (which is clearly one of those subjects).

I know that we were surpised to find that our add on smoothies at Jamba Juice ranged fro 50 to 77 grams of sugar (a 12 oz coke has 39 grams, a 20oz has 65 oz).  Why was Michael Bloomberg not ramped up against Jamba?  It is the false assumption of natural or healthy.

8 apples in a 8 oz glass of juice?  4-5 oranges?  The fruit is natural, but is the resulting sugar overloaded drink? 

[tribalthunder]

Hi TT,

I completely agree with your nature over artificial diet.  As a natural food Vegan you are approaching this from a very different diet than most of us are and I am stoked that it is working!  I was interested in the don't drink your calories advice that has some traction and wanted to give it a clean shot by switching to water only.  It has been very interesting to the point where I actually broke code and discussed diet (which is clearly one of those subjects).

I know that we were surpised to find that our add on smoothies at Jamba Juice ranged fro 50 to 77 grams of sugar (a 12 oz coke has 39 grams, a 20oz has 65 oz).  Why was Michael Bloomberg not ramped up against Jamba?  It is the false assumption of natural or healthy[/

8 apples in a 8 oz glass of juice?  4-5 oranges?  The fruit is natural, but is the resulting sugar overloaded drink?

Well, as far as overload goes, I'm pretty sure your system can handle fruit a lot easier than table sugar. As a treat it's fine, but as a regimen, you are better off with 1 apple mixed with other veggies. I switched from Juicing to Smoothies because your body assimilates the sugars more slowly because it needs to process the whole fruit and veggies, which takes more time to release the energy, where Juicing strips away the bulk and sends the nutrients quickly into your system, resulting in a sugar spike. I think Juicing is the way to go for attacking a certain illness or condition in quick manner, but Blending is more versatile for everyday life. I find my energy levels are far greater with Smoothies and the most beneficial add in is Spirulina. My stamina was noticeably better and there is less recovery time.

[Admin]

What you wrote about our bodies managing different sugars (and even the same sugars in different forms) differently had me interested.  I had read and posted an article here a long while back (but taken no action at the time ) that made a convincing argument that there was effectively no difference in the type of sugar, the result was the same.   Here is that old link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&

You are clearly on it when it comes to preparing your own foods.  I know that my home smoothies would not have been allowed to hang out in the same room as your smoothies.  I am grabbing a few...ahhh..usually 3 (ummm, or so) pieces of nice healthy fresh fruit, some healthy sounding honey, and whrrrrrrr.  Safe to say they did not end up green. 

[tribalthunder]

WOW! Could you really get through that article? I gave up sugar back in the 70's and from experience, it makes a world of difference. Here's a good example: My step daughter and her husband are really smart, genius level types that quote the science of calories and sugar is sugar,blah,blah,blah.....They drink diet drinks and sugar drinks and think I'm nuts when I talk about sugar from whole foods being different. Now I'm 60 in a few months and 6'3" and 180 lbs and can run rings around them both. They both are borderline obese and have health problems of all kinds, problems I know will disappear with some diet changes, but they cling to science. I know what works and whole foods is the bottom line. I have helped many folks overcome serious problems with simple advice.
  Water and whole foods will make you healthy into old age and processed food will kill you. Sorry if I'm ranting, sometimes I can't stop I like to see people as healthy and active as me and it's really so simple. Diets don't work, what works is the same thing that always works...yep.......same as it ever was....
    I really am glad to see that you are having results, now if you can throw some greens in that smoothie, you will be on your way!

[pdxmike]

...but they cling to science.

Science is continually wrong.  If it weren't, the "science-based" nutritional recommendations wouldn't be continually changing.  If you look at something far simpler than nutrition, like building construction, you can see how many current building failures were caused by taking the state-of-the-art scientific recommendations of only a few years ago.  If science can't get something that simple right, how can people rely on it to fully understand nutrition, which is more complex, and harder to pin down cause and effect.  Yet even when we have millions of obese, sick people walking around, science blames them (low willpower, cheaters...) instead of considering that mainstream nutritional beliefs (a calorie is a calorie, eating fat makes you fat...) may be wrong.  The obesity rise's exact coinciding with those beliefs is ignored. 


On the positive side, there were two nutrition articles in the mainstream press last week that show some questioning going on.  One discussed evidence that sugar intake has a high correlation to heart disease, but saturated fat intake does not (total reversal of standard thinking and government policy over the last 3 or 4 decades).  The other discussed evidence that "a calorie is a calorie" thinking may be wrong--that calories from some foods make you fatter than those from others--also a total contraction to standard thinking and policy. 


I'm not trying to demonize science.  The questioning is also science.  People just need to take scientific advice (which actually may be very distorted by the time it gets into the press or a food pyramid) with a grain of salt (or not).  Anyone diligently following advice that's making them fat should consider that the advice may be wrong, instead of blaming themselves for having a lack of willpower, bad genes, or whatever.