Author Topic: Performance = Tippiness?  (Read 6821 times)

Zooport

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Performance = Tippiness?
« on: September 15, 2014, 02:10:32 PM »
In my limited experience in the SUP world, I have come to the opinion that the equation "Performance = Tippiness" is an axiom. I'm sure the reverse is not necessarily true because not every tippy board is a great performer, but it seems like you can't have your cake and eat it too with stability.  If you want a fast board, you have to deal with a little tippiness.   

Do you agree?

Case in point:  Just started surfing a used, custom performance board that I bought this week really cheap.  It's 8'3" X 29" and apx. 110 liters volume.  In my opinion, it's really tippy.  It has taken a couple of sessions to get balanced enough on it to be able to catch waves.  The first time I took it into the surf, I couldn't catch a wave.  But this morning it started to click, caught a few good ones, and it's a blast.  Rocket fast on the waves, pumps like a skateboard and it turns like a dream. 

The AllWave 8'10" I have been riding is a great board and it's really stable and surfs pretty decent.  Rarely fall over on it, but it's noting like surfing a good performance board.   So I'm thinking that "performance = tippy."  What think you?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 02:27:26 PM by Zooport »
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beached

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 02:41:01 PM »
what exactly do you mean by 'performance'? Simmons shaped boards tend to do everything i want my board to do...in less than gigantic waves. and they are very stable and fast. so i'd say they 'perform' quite well, and aren't tippy at all.   

SlatchJim

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 03:25:28 PM »
what exactly do you mean by 'performance'? Simmons shaped boards tend to do everything i want my board to do...in less than gigantic waves. and they are very stable and fast. so i'd say they 'perform' quite well, and aren't tippy at all.   
This.

I know there is a school of thought that real performance SUS can only be done on the smallest board you can negotiate on.  Following this trend would take absolutely all the fun out of SUS for me.  Note that I never was a shortboarder and that style of surfing (while athletic) is not my goal while I'm out in the waves.

XLR8

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 03:27:07 PM »
Here's a good article - IMO - from Larry Cain that discusses board width and beyond.  I tend to like a board with a little bit of personality but with a lot of secondary stability but Larry's points are excellent.

http://www.larrycain.ca/blog.html


Edited because the link didn't take you directly there...sorry..select the article with board width in the title...or go fishing  lol

I'll get back to whale watching on the outside now...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 03:28:43 PM by XLR8 »
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Zooport

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 04:41:26 PM »
what exactly do you mean by 'performance'? Simmons shaped boards tend to do everything i want my board to do...in less than gigantic waves. and they are very stable and fast. so i'd say they 'perform' quite well, and aren't tippy at all.   

You are right to bring that up.  I suppose "performance" and "tippy" are relative terms and would be subject to someone's opinion.  You might get on my 8'3" and say it is stable while I might get on your Simmons and say it was tippy. 

I've yet to try one of those Simmons style boards.  Hoping to hook up with Ralph sometime soon and try out the 7'6".   Thinking of selling my AllWave 8'10" to raise the money to buy one if I like it. 
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southwesterly

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 05:04:17 PM »
 You can't get performance when you are falling off your board before you even catch a wave.
 If you really want to rip it up, ditch the paddle and get yourself a 6'1" thinned out surfboard.

Zooport

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 05:11:18 PM »
You can't get performance when you are falling off your board before you even catch a wave.
 If you really want to rip it up, ditch the paddle and get yourself a 6'1" thinned out surfboard.
I already surf a 6'2" prone board and love it.  Been riding it for years.  Really enjoying the challenge of riding the 8'3" SUP right now.  It absolutely rips on waves, super fun.  Obviously a different paradigm than riding a short prone board, the prone board will always do more, but the SUP is more fun to me. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:19:02 PM by Zooport »
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OUTSIDEWAVE

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 08:33:30 PM »
it is also all relative as I went from a 195 ltr to a 163 ltr  board to demo while i could stand on it and even caught a few waves it was very tippy for me but turned like a dream
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Caribsurf

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 09:51:24 PM »
I guess it also depends on your definition of "performance". 
I'd agree that for me performance does equate to a tippy board.  Case in point comparing three boards ...8'10" x 32" Starboard wide point, the  8'10" x 32" Allwave and the 8'11" x 28" Hobie Raw.  While all three boards are relatively same length and are fun to surf, there is no comparison whatsoever when it comes to performance, the a Hobie blows the others away.  Being 28" wide and 118 liters, it does require a lot more balance when waiting in the lineup.

One board that may dispute this theory is the a naish Hokua X32. Recently I bought the Naish Hokua X32 LE 8'8" and for a 32" wide board, I will say it is fairly high performance without being tippy at all.  The board is stable as can be, yet with the thin tail and nose and rocker surfs pretty loose for 32" wide.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 09:53:56 PM by Caribsurf »
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Southbay

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 11:37:43 PM »
In my experience tippyness becomes fairly comfortable, fairly quickly. Depending on the water conditions of course. And yes, it usually does equate to performance. The Simmons shapes are different. Sure they turn well and go fast, but like my 5'8" fish compared to by 6'2" thruster, it is not a performance board. Doesn't mean it's not awesome and amazing fun, just not top to bottom "performance". If it was you'd see some on the ASP.   

My performance board is a 8'2" x 26 x 3 3/4. Pulled in tail and nose. It started out crazy tippy, but now it's pretty comfortable. Could I go shorter, yes.  Could I go narrower, probably not if I am planning on paddling out to an outer reef, and that is the best part of sup surfing in my opinion.


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Zooport

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2014, 06:46:05 AM »
Thanks Southbay and Caribsurf.  I was beginning to think that I must be crazy because everyone seemed to disagree with the performance = tippiness idea.  It only makes sense.

I was at the Infinity shop talking to the guy about their Phoenix shapes, which is somewhat of a knockoff of the Simmons design.  He said that they were awesome boards, really fun and easy to ride, but they were not high performance.  He said they performed nicely, but they were not on a pro level of board.  More for having a blast zipping and slashing around, but they could not perform as well as their Trout or TL models. 
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1tuberider

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2014, 07:27:22 AM »
I think you need to find the right balance between flotation and performance. If you need to sit while waiting for a wave then you gave up one of the benefits of standing. Those with more endurance and less years may prefer the smallest boards but those with more age and less endurance may prefer to stay uprite and take the bigger board to its limits.

I prefer to perform but I don'd want a sinker.  I am riding what I consider a good performance board but I have enough float to stay uprite. Any less float and my wave count will go down, my time spent surfing will be less and the tradeoff is not worth it to me.

I only surf to make me happy.

SaMoSUP

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2014, 07:31:50 AM »
I was watching the pros at the US SUP Tour training for the surf event this weekend. Their boards are tippy. I don't think I saw a pro with anything over 28" wide. Mo Freitas' board is 23" wide by 7'3" long. There's not even a handle on it. He carries it around like a shortboard. You can probably get good performance on a stable board but not high performance. Although the pros could probably take your stable board and make it look high performance.

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2014, 08:21:16 AM »
+1 on finding the right balance.  Literally.  It's all about the highest performance board you can actually feel comfortable paddling, given your experience level and the conditions you surf.  Using that formula, you'll progress to higher performance boards over time...

I went from 10'10 x 32, to 10'5 x 30, a few sessions on a 9'6, and now a 9'0 x 30.  In rough & windy Norcal, this is where I'll likely stay for a while... until I learn to surf better. 

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PonoBill

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Re: Performance = Tippiness?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2014, 08:25:21 AM »
Performance is a loose term until you reach the extremes. At the pro end, a performance board is one that enables them to use their abilities to the utmost. Are the pro guys on boards we couldn't stand on? Yes. And most of them are custom shaped to suit specific elements of their ability or even a specific location. Does that have anything to do with us? Nope.

At the intermediate level, performance doesn't have to equal tippiness simply because it's a softer concept. You certainly don't gain performance simply by getting a tippier board. There are lots of relatively stable boards that will turn quickly and handle on a wave top to bottom with a decent surfer on board. And there are very tippy board that don't turn for shit. 

Again, look at the extreme. A 22" wide straight rail 12'6" race board is incredibly tippy, and surfs like a telephone pole.
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