Author Topic: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....  (Read 10595 times)

Shawn Michael

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Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
« on: November 19, 2008, 11:24:05 PM »
As some interest was expressed in an earlier thread on Kettlebells, I thought I would offer two thoughts on training which have lead to the "Ahh ha!" and helped me train better.  For whatever reason, these important ideas seem to amazingly slip under the radar and are not generally taught and helped me resolve some frusteration in my quest as a non gifted athlete to do a little better than I did before.  All thoughts welcome!

1)  Your heart and lungs are not the most important key to endurace. 

"...recent research indicates that an increase in endurance is associated more with enhancing the ability of the muscles to utilise a higher percentage of the oxygen already in the blood than with increasing the amount of oxygen in the bloodstream and improving the oxygen supply to the working muscle (Ekblom, 1969; Rowell, 1971; Saltin, 1974). Consequently, it is not simply the magnitude of VO2 max that determines endurance, but intramuscular factors which facilitate adaptation of the muscles to prolonged intense work.... Thus, the development of endurance is associated with functional specialisation of the skeletal muscles, particularly the enhancement of their strength and oxidative qualitites, rather than improvement of cardiorespiratory ability." (Siff, Mel. 2000. Supertraining. p. 248)

Of all the athletes studied, Lance Armstrong stands atop the mountain with a few elite rowers, cross country skiiers and cyclists as having the greatest cardiorespiratory (vo2max) ever measured...his ability to deliver oxygen to his muscles is unparalleled, yet his mediocre showing in marathon, being defeated by men and women with average cardiorespiratory capacity shows the the efficiency of the muscles in that movment pattern are more important than how strong your heart and lungs are...which is why an elite runner can totally gas after a 100 meter ocean swim (any of you seen that before) or 2 minutes of wrestling can wipe out an accompished cyclist.......So for us SUP nothing can better replace or suppliment paddling than miles and hour on the water which will increase the efficiency, lactate threshold, and other oxidative qualities of the paddling muscles.  Whereas you can "peak out" your VO2 max rather quickly with proper training, it takes many years to "peak out" your muscles ability to become more efficient, so even if your heart and lungs are all they can be, you will continue to get faster for several years as your muscles change and improve, and that is encouraging.

The Crossfit movement is in a way built upon this fact of our physiology.  Police, Fire, Rescue, Military to name a few dont want to be the elite runner who has only a very limited specialization of efficient muscles so Crossfit attempts to hit as many angles as possible, minimize any weak links in muscular efficiency and become as there motto says "unfu%&withable" via the develpement of "universal fitness"

Though no one movement can condition all the muscle for efficiency many coaches, crossfitters, and exercize physiologists point to the concept II erg as being the most universal test of all around fitness, and of course the Soviets in their quest for the most universally fit military studied the simple high rep kettlebell snatch as the most telling barometer of a soldiers ability to excel in several tasks of strength and endurance.

So, learn how to relax and train the muscle in the specific task to gain more endurance...Even with Lance's cardio you will need to put in the hours and miles in the paddling stroke to get the endurance.

2)  Long distance, moderate pace "cardio" like running, swimming, biking is the key to heart health

"Forced, continuous, endurance exercise induces your heart and lungs to 'downsize' because smaller allows you to go further... more efficiently... with less rest... and less fuel.

So what's wrong with increasing durational capacity through downsizing? Instead of building heart strength, it robs it of vital reserve capacity. Your heart's reserve capacity is that portion of its maximal output that you don't use during usual activity. To reuse the car analogy, your reserve capacity is the 'pedal' that you have left on your accelerator before you hit the floorboard when you're cruising at your typical speed.

So if you downsize your heart and lungs you have traded reserve capacity for efficiency at continuous duration. This then forces them to operate dangerously close to their maximal output when circumstances challenge them. For your heart, this is a problem you don't need.

Heart attacks don't occur because of a lack of endurance. They occur when there is a sudden increase in cardiac demand that exceeds your heart's capacity."

- Al Sears, M.D. from "PACE: Rediscover Your Native Fitness" (pg. 8-9) 

  So for heath we long distance paddlers get plenty of endurance and what is missing is the interval training.  Of course yall surfers get your intervals, but doing intervals (in whatever mode you like) seems to be the new direction for keeping the heart healthy (with your doctors permission of course) without excessively inducing inflammation.  Gives you a higher redline so to speak.   And pour on the Fish Oil.

Paddle-Plappe

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Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2008, 01:28:58 AM »
Thanks for posting Shawn. Training for long distance is about specialized method.  Just do it well and it will be efficient. Avoid doping, avoid EPO.
You'll never be as strong as Amstrong.

DavidJohn

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Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2008, 01:42:07 AM »
Interesting stuff.. Thanks.

DJ

Shawn Michael

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Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2008, 03:17:29 AM »
A really good, simple way to work on lactate training that will benefit long distance work from Alan Carlsson...great books also if you want to get detailed about training below. Start with 4 bouts of 4 minutes of really hard paddling followed by 4 minutes of easy paddling and decrease the rest periods as the weeks go by.  This will help condition the muscles to be more efficient for the long and slow stuff as well as maintain the explosive bursts when needed to catch a swell etc.  This was written for OC-1 distance racing but as so many of the great SUP guys from outrigger suggest, there is a LOT of carryover between the two, so give it a try!

Since I am not getting any younger I have to get a little smarter!

"A distance athlete dedicated to racing at thier optimal performacen level would learn thier MLSS, then train to race at that value using shorter efforts at that intensity.

i.e. week 1 4 x 4:00 min @ MLSS on 4:00 min easy
week 2 4 x 4:00 min @ MLSS on 3:00 min easy
week 3 4 x 4:00 min @ MLSS on 2:00 min easy
week 4 4 x 4:00 min @ MLSS on 1:00 min easy
week 5 3 x 6:00 min @ MLSS on 2:00 min easy or 2 x 8:00 @ MLSS or 16:00 min @ MLSS
week 6 you get the idea but gradually increasing the duration or shortening the recovery. If you manage 16:00 @ MLSS, you could even begin over at week 1 doing 5-7 x 4:00 min @ MLSS on 4:00 min and work at that. The possibilities are endless.

Fatigue or overtraining would probably result in a decrease in speed and lactate at a given HR. If it is overtraining (chronic fatigue), you can expect to take months to recover, while short term fatigue will clear up with a few days of recovery. Using indices of overtraining/fatigue monitoring tools will gove you more insight into this.
    Incidentally, a well designed training program should be designed around recovery as opposed to work. This will minimize the risk of overtraining.[/list:u][/i]
    There are a number of books to help you learn about lactate curves (hopefully option 1 won’t give your nightmares :) )
    Swimming Fastest: Ernerst Maglischo
    The Science of Winning: Jan Olbrecht (coach of IM Hawaii record holder Luc VanLierde and advisor to top cyclist Jan Ullrich)
    Lactate Threshold Training: Peter Janssen- lots of sample data from top athletes and long term follow up data showing training induced changes.
    [/list][/list]
    « Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 03:19:15 AM by Shawn Michael »

    linter

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #4 on: November 20, 2008, 03:53:43 AM »
    Terrific stuff, Shawn, thanks.  So ... how would you optimally work the kettlebell in to all of the above?

    ECSUP

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 04:46:40 AM »
    Shawn-

    Thanks a lot, there is some really good info there.

    Hey, has anybody tried a Body Blade? I just got one and it really is a pretty cool short workout.

    shapeshifter

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #6 on: November 20, 2008, 05:25:19 AM »
    thanks for clarification on the whole crossfit philosophy shawn... i came across a crossfit discussion board as i was researching the shinfins and was amazed at the expertise available to anyone just starting out. i thought it was all about military jocks (and in many ways it is) but your explanation makes it more palatable for the general public.
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    1tuberider

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #7 on: November 20, 2008, 05:56:28 AM »
    Shawn    I have always run at max.  My whole life I have a tendency to overdue and it is a reflection of me.

    In my training I had to learn to breath correctly.  I always due the tasks of the sport wether it be surfing, football, windsurfing, sup or martial arts.  But the breathing part brings the calmness and control when all else is out of control. 

    So when i find myself tight I remember to breath in thru my nose and exhale thru my mouth in a controlled manner and to keep breathing.  I have run into the wall paddling with purpose because of distance and max output but my breathing technique and a little less output usually has me recovered in short order then I can increase my output. My stamina comes from doing it at a high output and doing it a lot but without proper breathing I wouldn't be as durable.

    Of course when surfing the breaks are after the paddle back out in between sets and of course I am at 100% here but when I paddle with purpose I am probably around 80% till I am near the end, then it is 100% of what is left over till it is all gone.  Then I crawl home with a big smile.

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    dragon

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #8 on: November 20, 2008, 06:51:45 AM »
    this is a good topic for us older farts...that is say over 40?
    Another get fitness program is "Core Performance" by Mark Verstegen-he is a trainer who has developed a program for overall fitness, flexibility and performance.  I found it to be great as you do lots of different stuff and the focus is just to be a better athlete at whatever it is you like to do-ie: not to get big biceps or 3 hr marathon...I love the workout I get paddling, but as you get better, you work less, so the idea of paddling intervals is great - just wish it wasn't F'ing winter around here now!

    greatdane

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 07:24:29 AM »
    When not specifically training on the water, variation is the key to great improvement physically.  Part of the Cross Fit philosophy is to always mix up your routine.  If you go into the gym and do the same routine every day, your body adapts and you won't break through to the next level.  By changing things up a bit, it keeps your body guessing, which is a good thing.

    If you always do pull-ups over-hand, switch to under-hand.  If you always run on pavement, try running in soft sand.  Do your dumb bell curls while standing on an unsteady surface like a balance board.  By doing this kind of stuff you will also not burn out mentally and get bored... which leads people to not work out!

    Shawn, your quote about heart attacks is so true.  The leading cause of death for firefighters is cardiac arrest.  Many firefighters think that running on a treadmill for 20 minutes is adequate.  In reality, a fire call comes in at 3 am, and you have to go from deep sleep and a heart rate of 60bpm to heavy thermal load/exertion and a heart rate of 180bpm in the course of about 8 minutes.  Boom! Their cardiac response is inadequate for this work load!  This is where interval training comes in...
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    stoneaxe

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #10 on: November 20, 2008, 08:12:37 AM »
    Damn.....I need to get busy...all this talk makes me realize just how little I actually do for training. I need to make it fun though....working out for the sake of working out isn't my thing. Thinking back to my youthful fit days I was playing multiple sports - basketball, baseball, football, tennis volleyball, going biking, swimming, skiing...we we're constantly in motion. 

    I've mixed in some treadmill and weights into my home workout but boring doesn't begin to describe it. Must be why I don't do it as often as I should.

    What are folks doing to keep it interesting?
    Bob

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #11 on: November 20, 2008, 09:34:46 AM »
    I wish I could monitor my heart rate to compare it during small knee high surf and overhead surf. I sometimes have to sit inside after catching a large wave to calm or bring my heart rate down. I used a heart monitor while paddling (oneman) as I had the monitor set for my 80% heart rate max during long distance training. It was a safe way to train, but my standup paddling surf is way harder. I feel that because of the excitement of the waves, getting into position to catch the waves, then all the body movements on the wave itself, brings my heart up to max. When I paddle distance on my standup, its at a slower sustain stroke speed, more of a flowing tempo, compare to surfing large waves. Well that's putting my two sense to this tread. I did adjust my land training (track) to include interval sprints and running up stadium stairs, bringing my heart rate up and down.

    Aloha,

    PH 

    PonoBill

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #12 on: November 20, 2008, 09:57:53 AM »
    I wish I could monitor my heart rate to compare it during small knee high surf and overhead surf. I sometimes have to sit inside after catching a large wave to calm or bring my heart rate down. I used a heart monitor while paddling (oneman) as I had the monitor set for my 80% heart rate max during long distance training. It was a safe way to train, but my standup paddling surf is way harder. I feel that because of the excitement of the waves, getting into position to catch the waves, then all the body movements on the wave itself, brings my heart up to max. When I paddle distance on my standup, its at a slower sustain stroke speed, more of a flowing tempo, compare to surfing large waves. Well that's putting my two sense to this tread. I did adjust my land training (track) to include interval sprints and running up stadium stairs, bringing my heart rate up and down.

    Aloha,

    PH 

    Hey PH, I thought you had a 305, don't you have the heart rate monitor with that? If not you can order one from Garmin. Most of the versions sold in big box stores come with the heart rate strap.

    I haven't been using mine much laely, but when I was training for the BOP I was doing intervals controlled by heart rate--worked great.
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    Paddle Hard

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #13 on: November 20, 2008, 10:26:47 AM »
    I wish I could monitor my heart rate to compare it during small knee high surf and overhead surf. I sometimes have to sit inside after catching a large wave to calm or bring my heart rate down. I used a heart monitor while paddling (oneman) as I had the monitor set for my 80% heart rate max during long distance training. It was a safe way to train, but my standup paddling surf is way harder. I feel that because of the excitement of the waves, getting into position to catch the waves, then all the body movements on the wave itself, brings my heart up to max. When I paddle distance on my standup, its at a slower sustain stroke speed, more of a flowing tempo, compare to surfing large waves. Well that's putting my two sense to this tread. I did adjust my land training (track) to include interval sprints and running up stadium stairs, bringing my heart rate up and down.

    Aloha,

    PH 

    Hey PH, I thought you had a 305, don't you have the heart rate monitor with that? If not you can order one from Garmin. Most of the versions sold in big box stores come with the heart rate strap.

    I haven't been using mine much laely, but when I was training for the BOP I was doing intervals controlled by heart rate--worked great.

    Correct, but I used my Garmin only when I do down wind runs (Maliko) and not when I surf. I'll try it during surfing sections just to see the difference on my heart rate.

    Thanks PonoBill.

    PH

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    Re: Paddling, CrossFit, and why Lance Armstrong can't run....
    « Reply #14 on: November 20, 2008, 11:01:18 AM »
    What are you folks doing to keep it interesting? Stoneaxe I took up Taekwon-Do about 6 weeks ago and it is a great and fun way to crosstrain has even improved by balance and flexability plus you get to hit and kick and spar in a controlled enviroment fun if you like that kind of stuff also picked up lairds new book it also talks about Crossfit but it also shows some workouts that are done outside and are not boring very good book.

     


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