Author Topic: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch  (Read 5430 times)

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« on: August 26, 2014, 05:55:07 PM »
After a recent SUP surf at Dog Patch, I was taking a break and watching the action out on the reef.  I watched a buttboarder take off along with a SUP and the SUP was in position to have rights to the wave.  The buttboarder, however, did not back off, took the drop and had a great ride in front of the SUPer who got totally hosed.  This happened many times and it's NOT COOL.  I'm not saying it's OK, because it's not. 

However, I buttboarded down at DP several times a week from about 2001 to 2007, I know most of those old guys and I understand their mentality.  Not offering an excuse, but here is some insight: Since there is very little chance of them falling and since they don't have a lot of maneuverability, two or three guys on a wave is no big deal.  In fact, it's kind of fun to have a buttboard party wave in many cases.  We did it all the time.  So for them, dropping in not a big sin.  I'm not saying they are totally innocent and don't know they are ticking you off, but they are just operating on a different paradigm.  Most of them are pretty nice guys and would be likely to respond favorably if you politely asked them not to drop in on you.

Here's the other issue.  Until about 2007, buttboarders ruled the roost at Dog Patch.  They had a system where everybody got waves and if someone was not getting their share, the others would call on them to drop in a share the wave.  Now those old guys can hardly even get a wave unless they drop in on a SUP.  The place is crawling with us SUPers, and every ridable wave that comes has got some SUPer digging in to get it.  Buttboarders can't compete.  A number have mentioned to me that they can't; the equipment just can't beat a skilled SUPer.  So they either drop in on someone or they don't get any waves at all. 

Is is cool? No.  Is it OK? No. Is it understandable?  IMO, Yes. 
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

OUTSIDEWAVE

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1894
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 06:14:15 PM »
all the more reason  to allow sups more access to more area.   In my experience with butt boarders they seem to be able to catch waves long before they break. at least where i surf. In my limited memory of san O  the waves rolled quite a bit. The waves I am used to actually break so if you are late you  hammered,  if you are early  you  can't catch it. I do feel some sympathy for  the butt guys   Hell I was a gnatt's  eye from  buying  a surf ski and converting  but then I tried sup and Amen>>>>>> I was saved. lol!!!!!! no I am not religious at all.

So do the waves at san o roll like I remember? Or do they break and pitch even a bit someone post some videos.  My last memory of a wave up there was  having some "life guard" ask me if I knew  what I was doing and  then me getting so many waves  and getting ten on my weber performer  and  basically riding circles around that guy until he gave me the stink eye and left.   but   i kinda remember the waves as sorta fat and rolly  with no real pitch  is that right ?
SEA BIRDS THEY DO TOUCH AND GO AS THE WORLD JUST TANGOES BY.... SO I SADDLE UP MY SEAHORSE WITH MY FLYROD IN MY HAND.... 10'3 King custom  10'6"  c4 da beachboy

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 06:19:14 PM »
Yeah, really, really slow and rolling at DP.  I agree, SUPs should be given more area. 
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 06:35:47 PM »
Hmm, as point of ignorance, what qualifies as a butt boarder?  Is this just sitting on the board and riding it in a sitting position, using a kayak paddle and sitting on the board to catch waves, or actually a kayak catching waves?

 I have seen the specially designed surf kayaks during contests, but not often at any other times around Santa Cruz.
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 06:51:44 PM »
There are kayaks made for surfing and then there are waveskis, the originally disrespectful term for them is buttboards and it has sort of stuck.  A buttboard is pretty much a surfboard with a small seat, a seat-belt and straps to hold your feet in.  You surf them sitting on your butt, hence the term.

I still have a couple in the roof of my garage, but they haven't seen water in many years.  They are pretty fun for tiny surf since 2-3ft is head high when you are sitting!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 06:58:10 PM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

Califoilia

  • Axis Demo Rep
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1510
  • San Clemente
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 07:52:37 PM »
Wow, talking about a coincidence.  Just this morning, I was talking/texting with another zoner who is very ardent in the fight to open all breaks to SUPs, and thought of a possible union of SUPers and A$$ Rocketeers in the "paddles vs. proners" conflict....and the below quote was suggested, that they might be as against us in THEIR area, as the proners are against us in theirs. 
Here's the other issue.  Until about 2007, buttboarders ruled the roost at Dog Patch.  They had a system where everybody got waves and if someone was not getting their share, the others would call on them to drop in a share the wave.  Now those old guys can hardly even get a wave unless they drop in on a SUP.  The place is crawling with us SUPers, and every ridable wave that comes has got some SUPer digging in to get it.  Buttboarders can't compete.  A number have mentioned to me that they can't; the equipment just can't beat a skilled SUPer.  So they either drop in on someone or they don't get any waves at all.
Now you're gonna get a little argument from me that they "can't compete" with us....on the contrary, with their dual-bladed paddles, and them wielding them like hurricane blown windmills....I can tell you most are more than capable of getting their fair share of waves, and then some.

And I don't know if you've looked at their skis recently, but with their foot-peddled rudders, in addition to their lower center of gravity, and their ability to bury not only their paddle, but elbow and arm into the wave....again, many are way more maneuverable than the average SUPer out there.

All that said, I enjoy hanging out and surfing with most of them.  Sure, there's the couple grumpy old, "this was our place before you damn SUPers"...who do what they can to paddle over the top of you for a wave, drop on you at the very last second where you're almost gonna kill 'em, and just generally attempting to make it miserable to surf around, hoping you'll find somewhere else to SUP....Sound familiar?

Anyway the others are cool, good surfers, who once you understand the "rules" of the game(s) are fun to share a few waves with....and they have some pretty good breakfast goodies afterwards from time to time.  8) ;D
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 08:16:07 PM »
I agree that the big ones with rudders can compete.  Greg Call and Steve Boehne being some of the leading proponents of them.  Only about 10% of the buttboarders are on those big ones though.  Most of the old guys on the regular ones don't have a chance.  I know and still talk to them.

Also, I never said they hated SUP because buttboarders were there first.  None of them have ever said that to me.  Not a single one of them have hassled me either for going over to the dark side to SUP.  They are cool.  Annoying, but cool.   

Don't hate them like the proners hate us.  I can see the prejudice rising up against them. You are saying about them some of the things proners say about us.  Don't do it, rise above it.  We are better than that.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 08:53:19 PM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

Califoilia

  • Axis Demo Rep
  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1510
  • San Clemente
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 10:05:04 PM »
I agree that the big ones with rudders can compete.  Greg Call and Steve Boehne being some of the leading proponents of them.  Only about 10% of the buttboarders are on those big ones though.  Most of the old guys on the regular ones don't have a chance.  I know and still talk to them.
Hmmm, I'll have to count Friday when the crew is back (I won't be there tomorrow), but I think it's at least 50-50 rudder to skeg, but I could be wrong.

Quote
Also, I never said they hated SUP because buttboarders were there first.  None of them have ever said that to me.  Not a single one of them have hassled me either for going over to the dark side to SUP.  They are cool.  Annoying, but cool.
Look, I sit in the middle of them (yes, I "rest" a lot) and yak to them all the time (almost daily), and whether they're serious or not, they have pointed out (is that better?) more than once that they used to have all of DP to themselves, "long before those things (SUPs) were ever even thought about".

Maybe it was just a little history lesson for me, but it was said nonetheless....

Quote
Don't hate them like the proners hate us.  I can see the prejudice rising up against them. You are saying about them some of the things proners say about us.  Don't do it, rise above it.  We are better than that.
Zoo, I think you completely misread my post. 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough when I said, ".....I enjoy hanging out and surfing with most of them", and "....the others are cool, good surfers, who once you understand the "rules" of the game(s) are fun to share a few waves with.....so what in the world would make you believe I "hate them like the proners hate us"?? 

Hell, several of my SUP buddies also waveski, and I hang out with them out in the water no matter whether they're sitting or standing.

I just don't understand where you're coming from Zoo, other than you were/are a butt-boarder, and feel you need to defend something the doesn't need defending....and then feel insulted somehow when it's pointed out to you.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 10:09:57 PM by SanoSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »
I agree that the big ones with rudders can compete.  Greg Call and Steve Boehne being some of the leading proponents of them.  Only about 10% of the buttboarders are on those big ones though.  Most of the old guys on the regular ones don't have a chance.  I know and still talk to them.
Hmmm, I'll have to count Friday when the crew is back (I won't be there tomorrow), but I think it's at least 50-50 rudder to skeg, but I could be wrong.

Quote
Also, I never said they hated SUP because buttboarders were there first.  None of them have ever said that to me.  Not a single one of them have hassled me either for going over to the dark side to SUP.  They are cool.  Annoying, but cool.
Look, I sit in the middle of them (yes, I "rest" a lot) and yak to them all the time (almost daily), and whether they're serious or not, they have pointed out (is that better?) more than once that they used to have all of DP to themselves, "long before those things (SUPs) were ever even thought about".

Maybe it was just a little history lesson for me, but it was said nonetheless....

Quote
Don't hate them like the proners hate us.  I can see the prejudice rising up against them. You are saying about them some of the things proners say about us.  Don't do it, rise above it.  We are better than that.
Zoo, I think you completely misread my post. 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough when I said, ".....I enjoy hanging out and surfing with most of them", and "....the others are cool, good surfers, who once you understand the "rules" of the game(s) are fun to share a few waves with.....so what in the world would make you believe I "hate them like the proners hate us"?? 

Hell, several of my SUP buddies also waveski, and I hang out with them out in the water no matter whether they're sitting or standing.

I just don't understand where you're coming from Zoo, other than you were/are a butt-boarder, and feel you need to defend something the doesn't need defending....and then feel insulted somehow when it's pointed out to you.


OK, I guess I did misread your intent; sorry about that.  I understand that you are not hating; you are just annoyed.  For that matter, I'm annoyed at them too, but I do understand them. 

As far as me being a buttboarder, the answer is no.  I tried it again early this year and could not get interested now that I SUP.  Just no fun compared to SUSing.
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

RATbeachrider

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
    • View Profile
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 02:38:58 PM »
They are kool old farts!  :)

Btw, the SUS ladies at DP, lately, are looking fine!

OUTSIDEWAVE

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1894
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 03:51:14 PM »
I thought they were on longer surf skiis like 8 foot plus( sit on top)  but I went there early this pm and saw only one guy who was on more of a small whitewater type kayak about 5  feet no fins  with a skirt and the whole  deal he made it out after a while but drifted way north of the ok /ko sign the life guard didn't say a thing.  but here was no one else out at dp and only  limited  numbers out  elsewhere old mans and the point. This guy was young relatively speaking maybe 30-40  way younger that I am.
SEA BIRDS THEY DO TOUCH AND GO AS THE WORLD JUST TANGOES BY.... SO I SADDLE UP MY SEAHORSE WITH MY FLYROD IN MY HAND.... 10'3 King custom  10'6"  c4 da beachboy

TallDude

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5714
  • Capistrano Beach
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 04:40:07 PM »
It's been my understanding that one of the aforementioned was actually the one who caused the ban. There was apparently a run in between this Butt boarder and Bill Stewart a number of times at the point. This particular Butt boarder is very aggressive.  Bill and a few others from the SanO Surf Club went to the state parks director to get the 'Paddle Ban' put in place. Before SUP's were even an issue. That's the way I heard it......
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

supsurf-tw

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1062
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 05:05:21 PM »
It's been my understanding that one of the aforementioned was actually the one who caused the ban. There was apparently a run in between this Butt boarder and Bill Stewart a number of times at the point. This particular Butt boarder is very aggressive.  Bill and a few others from the SanO Surf Club went to the state parks director to get the 'Paddle Ban' put in place. Before SUP's were even an issue. That's the way I heard it......

I wouldn't doubt it.......
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

Zooport

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3533
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 05:18:52 PM »
It's been my understanding that one of the aforementioned was actually the one who caused the ban. There was apparently a run in between this Butt boarder and Bill Stewart a number of times at the point. This particular Butt boarder is very aggressive.  Bill and a few others from the SanO Surf Club went to the state parks director to get the 'Paddle Ban' put in place. Before SUP's were even an issue. That's the way I heard it......

Yes, and it was one of the guys I mentioned.  He is very aggressive and ticked off the wrong people.  The paddle ban was originally because of buttboarders but SUPers have inherited it.  It wasn't actually about safety, but about guys being upset over buttboarders taking over the waves.  They couldn't get it to go through just because they hated butboarders, the safety thing was a farce that served to get paddlecraft banned.  Just like they do now to the SUPers.  It's not about safety, it's about hatred of superior surf vehicles. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:21:51 PM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
9'1 Sunova Creek
9'6 WaveStorm SUP
9'8 Starboard Element

Socalsupper70

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: In defense of the buttboarders at Dog Patch
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 07:31:58 AM »
 It's not about safety, it's about hatred of superior surf vehicles.

Tell him what he's won Johnny!!!!
Bingo-this is the whole argument in a nut-shell and everyone knows it.

The butt boarders dont bother me at all-i like most of them-Greg is hyper agressive and years ago i had it out with him about getting too close to me and my wife and since then we are friends. Mike will talk your face off and drop in on you and dont bother to yell because hes half deaf-but hes a good dude and i dont have anything against any of them. I still get my waves and any butt boarder with disabilities, and there are several,get an instant hall pass from me. If i see them going for a wave-i give it to them, there are more waves, ill get my share.

The paddle is a hazard and we are concerned for our safety is a load of crap and in the end it will be their go-to argument and i feel it will eventually collapse and sups will roam free and get access like everyone else, however we are going to have to fight for it!
Support the HPWA!
HE>I.com
Instagram- @supjuan

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal