Author Topic: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?  (Read 7063 times)

CowichanSUPer

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Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« on: August 26, 2014, 01:10:51 PM »
Hi Team,

I recently purchased a 7'11" custom board...not sure it matters from which manufacturer in California at this point.  After the first very small surf session I noticed compression dents from my feet. I then took it out for 2 more small surf sessions and the dents got bigger.  Total time on the board maybe 3 hours in thigh to waist high glassy waves.  My concern was that once I get a full season of real surfing this board would have a couple of beer can holder sized dents in it.

I have been very careful with not jumping on the board hard with my knees and stumping around with my feet and I have not knee paddled it at all.  It had a deck pad too.

The board went back to the manufacturer and they told me that this was expected with a light weight custom board.  They offered to give me my money back so I took them up on the offer.  I figured I would regroup and rethink the custom board approach.

A couple questions.

1.  Is this what others have seen with custom boards and it is just as I was told - expected?
2.  Could a custom board be made to be not quite as little but much stronger?

Again, I don't want to get into which manufacturer it was as they were very good to deal with on this topic so maybe lets just keep that out of the thread if possible.

Any thoughts?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 02:11:00 PM »
A custom board will get a slight sinking of the deck, since it's not sandwich. By slight, I'm talking 1/32 to 1/16 over time. It should not get spot specific "dents" from heels or knees, in most cases.

Decks that sink immediately and big time, often split wide open when ridden hard for a year or more.

You did the right thing in my opinion, by getting your money back. Move on and ask on the next custom, if the deck is built tough.

PonoBill

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 02:56:28 PM »
A little, yes, a lot, no. It costs a small fortune to do windsurfer-style construction. Dave Kalama shaped a blank for me as a favor. I wanted the board to last, so I told Nelson boardworks I wanted "bulletproof" construction. I don't want to say what that cost, and the board is a bit heavy, but even with Mr. Clumsy handling it, it will last.

That's probably not what you want--heavy and expensive. If your glasser does a typical job with a typical schedule you can expect knee dents and heel dents. Some right away. There's no way to tell how big you're talking about, they don't usually get a lot worse unless you do something dramatic. If you let your board cure a month before using it you'd have fewer problems. Let me know if you ever do that.

They did right by you, it is probably not what you were expecting, but the board was probably fine.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Califoilia

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 08:48:11 PM »
As Pono said, a lot has to do with the layup.  My custom boards shaper/glasser adds several layers of carbon fiber under where my feet are most of the time, and with those boards, there is little to no foot dents.

Whoever, he did glass one for me from another shaper, who I forgot to tell about the CF (he doesn't usually use it in his), and when the board came through it went without the CF.

Like you, I was pretty worried after the first session with it, and after a couple hours I was already noticing the foot dents. 

They got a little worse the nest session, so I called the shaper and asked him about them, and he said they can be expected.

Well, that really wasn't what I wanted to hear, because IMO the board was still brand new, and my much older boards as I said had basically none on them.

Well, that was a year and a half ago....the board is my "go to" board so gets surfed a lot, and while the deck pad is peeling off, and while the deck almost feels "bouncy" for no better term, but it's still as light as the day it was new (14.3lbs with fins and pad) so with that, it's not taking on any water under that pad around the dents.....

So I guess all I'm saying is that what you're experiencing is "normal" from my experience of a SUP without some CF to reenforce the deck, but it also doesn't seem to effect the performance one bit, nor the durability of it....because I've got FAR more life out of the board than I ever imagined, considering how hard, and how often it gets ridden.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 08:50:11 PM by SanoSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

PonoBill

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 09:36:02 PM »
My experience exactly. You can ask a glasser to reinforce with Bamboo, a couple extra layers of 6oz, a little carbon fiber, or whatever floats your boat. It all works (some) and it's not "normal practice". The dents probably won't grow all that much, or they might and you'll have a place to put your beer. Next time ask for some deck reinforcement of your chosen flavor. I like bamboo. Not as strong as Carbon, but it's pretty. You can also ask your glasser to use S-glass and probably pay an extra hundred or so bucks. I don't use E-Glass at all anymore except maybe by accident when I'm pulling some glass from the scrap box to fix a ding.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

CowichanSUPer

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 11:25:40 PM »
Thanks for the input guys. I may have panicked a little it sounds like, but there were a couple of warning bells going off for me. I come from a windsurfing background and something like I saw is a big no no, but maybe more normal for this.

I might be starting over again and get some extra reinforcement for under the feet.  There was carbon under the feet with this one mind you but I understand there is a new process for the layup they are using that is much stronger.

Either that or I'll be going production again.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 05:33:13 AM »
There was carbon under the feet with this one mind you .......

Was it really carbon? Many people call the netting carbon. It is not.

If you're a hard ripper it's possible to tear the deck open. A local ripper we call Surf Machine, put his feet thru (torn glass) the decks on 2 boards. (Neither made by me).

The issue with carbon decks, is they look terrible on the racks in surf shops unless factory pad is supplied to hide it. So go custom, get the carbon deck, and cover it up.

CowichanSUPer

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 09:33:45 AM »
It was netting DM.  I believe 2 layers running in opposite directions, but it was hard to tell with the deck pad. 

So you are saying to have a square piece of carbon put in the standing area. Like is shown in the Red Machete by Riviera http://www.rivierapaddlesurf.com/pages/custom-orders.  It was not a Riviera BTW.  I am just using this as an example.

Maybe have that with the netting and things should be pretty bomber?

Thanks,
Mark

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 11:37:53 AM »
Yes, like Riviera did it.

PonoBill

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 12:23:33 PM »
I don't think the netting does much. Unless you're really into that wide mesh stocking thing I'd go with just some 3K carbon in the standing area, wide and long enough to offer stiffness and pressure resistance.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

CowichanSUPer

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 03:54:53 PM »
Thanks guys!  I think I am jumping ship on the custom thing.  Going the production route.  More money but hopefully light weight and more bombproof.

Califoilia

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 04:13:28 PM »
There was carbon under the feet with this one mind you .......

Was it really carbon? Many people call the netting carbon. It is not.

Pretty sure that this is two layers of carbon fiber on each side....


...that happens to be a friend's board who's lighter than I, and mine carries three layers.

And yes, all of the boards that this guy does are custom ordered, all include a deck pad that covers those patches, so there is no aesthetic value concern, as they're not sold in stores anywhere, nor sitting in a rack.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 04:17:14 PM by SanoSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

Califoilia

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 04:30:17 PM »
I don't think the netting does much. Unless you're really into that wide mesh stocking thing I'd go with just some 3K carbon in the standing area, wide and long enough to offer stiffness and pressure resistance.
Dang PB, we need to spot meeting agreeing like this...  :D

Yes, heard all the different theories on the "netting" (which I believe is Kevlar, not CF....but I could be mistaken)....makes the board "stronger", "stiffer", "lighter", "whatever"....but have seen them buckle, bend, ding, dent, and crack just like all the rest.

So as Pono says, "Unless you're really into that wide mesh stocking thing", and might I add "expensive"....go with the reenforced deck, and you should be happen.

Oh, and I think having a stringer of some kind is a pretty good idea.  The blanks I use are stringerless for weight considerations, but we add another 4" carbon fiber stripe around the board, and it does seem to make a difference in keeping the board slightly stiffer, and from snapping in two like a couple of my friend's boards did, who use the same glasser, and who didn't have the full CF strip around their boards.

But that's merely anecdotal, and not any real scientific proof that the CF strip did that, or if I was just lucky.
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

supuk

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2014, 01:03:12 AM »
Thanks guys!  I think I am jumping ship on the custom thing.  Going the production route.  More money but hopefully light weight and more bombproof.

i wouldn't guarantee that on any of the above except probably more expensive. I have had a top of the line production carbon inegra board with a sandwich deck dent worse than any of my plain e glass boards and the bottom was only plain glass and that dented like a mofo from just looking at it. I had it back in the other day for repairs and it looked shocking and as for hrs boards i do repairs on them nearly every day.

On the boards i make for myself i have been doing 1.5lbs foam (actually 1.3) double 4 oz top and bottom with a 6oz e glass deck patch that is put on last all e glass and the denting is minimal and once the initial dent has happened it doesn't get any worse, and it doesn't add another $40per m for the price of carbon.

I think a lot of the boards out there with a lot of fancy materials are getting over engineered and the added cost of of the exotic materials is far out weighing the performance gains. Yes there is a time and a place for exotic stuff but there is a reason why most surfboards are still made of just plain fiberglass.

PonoBill

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Re: Compression dents in custom boards...how much is expected?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2014, 10:16:28 AM »
You can use the most exotic and expensive materials improperly and get horrid results. I'm sure there are glassers that can make carbon work without bagging, but I can't.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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