Working back across the wind

[CascadeSup]

I'm still pretty new to downwinding, so I'm hoping some you pros can give me some advice.

The past couple of days I've done downwinders on Lake Wenatchee in Washington state.  Winds have been in the 15-20 range, and the lake is 5 miles long, so you can get a good 4 miles of catchable bumps.  The problem is the wind doesn't blow straight down the long axis of the lake, it's maybe 30 degrees or so crossing so you are always getting pushed toward the north shore.  Since I'm launching from the north shore, that means I'm  always having to work back out into the middle of the lake at lot.

It seems the bumps are all going pretty much lined up the same way, so when I catch a glide, I'm only going in one direction.  I end up paddling left side a lot to work out, then a few quick ones on the right side to get on glide, which takes me back toward shore.

So far my tactic has been to paddle as far out at the start as I can before turning downwind, but that means a lot of cross or up wind paddling.

I'm on a fixed fin board, so a rudder isn't an option.

Do you have any tips on the best way to work back across the wind? 

When on one of these small bumps, how far left or right of center should I be able to point and stay on it?

How often do you have to resort to just slogging or knee paddling back out?  I remember DJp saying something about they have to knee paddle sometimes at the end of their run.

[yugi]

Not pro tips and maybe stating the obvious but we can at least get that out of the way.

When on one of these small bumps, how far left or right of center should I be able to point and stay on it?

Executive Summary: As much as you can. Without getting out of the groove.

That will depend on your speed. Once on a plane you can cut more. Cut quick as soon as you are on a plane. How much is condition dependent. No point turning too much, only just as much that you will stay in the groove.

Even if you aren't planing you can find a groove going across.

How often do you have to resort to just slogging or knee paddling back out?

Executive Summary: As much as you need to.

Assuming, from what you said, the wind is Westerly. One thing you could do is paddle up around the NW top of the lake to start down more in line with the wind. Staying very close to shore in the lee of the wind. A warmup is always good and tactically it is always best to do your working your way across early as bumps will be bigger and more fun later.

And yes, on this run you will always be working your left side. No two ways about that. And yes, if this is all you do you will end up looking like Guillermo Vilas.

[CascadeSup]

Thanks!  Yes, the wind is westerly, usually WSW.  Looks like another windy day today, so I think today I'll try to go straight up wind to the get into flatter water, then cut across to near the south shore before turning downwind.   

Here's a picture looking up and across the lake just after the end of my run on Wednesday. 

[DavidJohn]

I'm still pretty new to downwinding, so I'm hoping some you pros can give me some advice.

The past couple of days I've done downwinders on Lake Wenatchee in Washington state.  Winds have been in the 15-20 range, and the lake is 5 miles long, so you can get a good 4 miles of catchable bumps.  The problem is the wind doesn't blow straight down the long axis of the lake, it's maybe 30 degrees or so crossing so you are always getting pushed toward the north shore.  Since I'm launching from the north shore, that means I'm  always having to work back out into the middle of the lake at lot.

It seems the bumps are all going pretty much lined up the same way, so when I catch a glide, I'm only going in one direction.  I end up paddling left side a lot to work out, then a few quick ones on the right side to get on glide, which takes me back toward shore.

So far my tactic has been to paddle as far out at the start as I can before turning downwind, but that means a lot of cross or up wind paddling.

I'm on a fixed fin board, so a rudder isn't an option.

Do you have any tips on the best way to work back across the wind? 

When on one of these small bumps, how far left or right of center should I be able to point and stay on it?

How often do you have to resort to just slogging or knee paddling back out?  I remember DJp saying something about they have to knee paddle sometimes at the end of their run.

We sometimes have to kneel paddle to keep from getting blown the wrong direction because the wind can be too strong to paddle against and your body becomes like a big sail.. The main trick to paddling across and into the wind is dipping the downwind rail of the board while paddling on the downwind side.. Having your fin forward in the box helps.. and some fins help more than others.

[PonoBill]

Ditto to all the above. Once you catch a bump and get to speed you can cut very hard--almost perpendicular if you stay low on the wave. Since these are always short period, peaky waves, there's no power up top, so stay in the trough and press hard on the rail.

rudder boards do this well, but a good-sized dolphin shape fin pushed as far forward as you can get it will make angling easier and better. Don't use a high aspect fin--you need lift at the finbox.

[Blue crab]

Cascade Sup,

Agreed with yogi: if you must knee paddle or just move lateral to the wind, try to do it at the start of the run, rather than the end. There is a huge psychological advantage to keeping a line once you point downhill.

Also, tell me more about Lake Wenatchee.  I am up in that neck of the woods quite a bit but always thought the lake did not enough fetch for bumps. Where do you put in and take out? Have you tried Chelan? The Sound sort of dies in the summer and I am in the market for day trips to get in a couple of runs.

[CascadeSup]

Blue Crab,

Yes, Lake Wenatchee does get windy enough for downwinders - and it's about 5 miles long, and I figure I was able to catch something for about 4 of those miles.   Obviously it gets better the further down lake you go.  The bumps definitely won't be as big as Viento or Puget Sound in winter, but it's similar to the south Lake Washington run (Renton airport to Enatai) in winter storms.

It would be great to get some more people paddling over there.

The west winds are thermal, like the Gorge, but not as strong.  You want it warmer on the east side, preferable with clouds stacked up against the Cascade crest (cloud cover over the lake can cut the wind). Windsurfers and kitesurfers check the pressure gradient between Everett (PAE) and Wenatchee (EAT).  6mb or more difference pretty much means it will be windy.  You can also check the two webcams at http://www.lakewenatcheeinfo.com/   (note: also check the date and time on the image, as they sometimes go offline and show old images).  There is also a link to the current weather on the Lake Wenatchee Info site, but the wind speed reads low because it's back in the trees.  I generally use this site for forecasting:  http://en.windfinder.com/weatherforecast/lake_wenatchee_state_park and click on the "Super Forecast" tab.  It shows today plus 2 days out - about the limit of reliability.  The forecast wind speeds may not be precise, but if it shows west 15, it will probably be worth the drive.   East winds don't blow hard enough to downwind.

There hasn't been wind since last Friday, but Wednesday this week may work.

I've windsurfed shortboards on Lake Wenatchee for over 20 years, so I know the winds are pretty reliable, but gusty.  There are more windy days in early summer, but it can blow any month.  The water is cold, especially early in the year, but it's a beautiful place to go.

I did runs last Wednesday and Thursday where I got some good glides - probably the best I've done. Friday was also windy, too but I didn't catch that one.  I was there by myself, and doing shuttles by bicycle, and I just didn't get around to getting the shuttle set up.   When I'm alone, I drive to the take-out, leave my car and bicycle back to our cabin to launch.

The take-out is easy: the Lake Wenatchee State Park boat ramp.  It's in the headwater of the Wenatchee River behind Emerald Island, so it’s nicely protected with a small beach and parking nearby (but busy on weekends).  You could also take out at University Beach, a Forest Service beach with free parking at about milepost 1 of North Shore Drive, but you will miss the best bumps.

The put-in is more of a problem.  The wind lines up best if you start from Glacier View campground on the south shore, at the end of Cedar Brae road.  The problem is I don't think you will find anywhere to park there unless you have a campsite.  If you could have someone to drop you there, Glacier View would work great.  Or you might be able to unload and park at the Hidden Lake trailhead about .75 miles back (NW Forest Pass required).  I don't know of anywhere else on the South Shore.

We have a cabin on the North Shore, so I launch from there   Other places on the North Shore: there is another Forest Service beach at mile 3.7 on North Shore Drive, with a couple places to park on the road, and then it's a hike down an old access road to the water - about a quarter mile.   Going further west along North Shore Drive, there are a few Chelan County road easements between the cabins that provide public access closer to the lake shore. You can find them on the county assessor's map, or PM me for details. Parking near these can be a problem, however.

I have not tried Lake Chelan for downwinders, but having windsurfed both Lake Wenatchee and Lake Chelan, I'm pretty sure Lake Wenatchee has more wind, and has wind more often.  Lake Chelan would have a longer fetch when it is windy, or you could surf the Lady of The Lake wake.

[Blue crab]

Awesome overview. Thanks.  I am psyched to come try it. 

A colleague has a great cabin near the lake which we have used to ski Stevens. I paddled the lake in the middle of the winter which was awesome. Got some pow later that day. 

The run sounds perfect for my family. My 2 sons are 8 & 9, and have done some low grade downwinding.  My wife is sort of getting into it as well. A lake run with sun and manageable swell would expedite the process. The Sound is awesome, but also inherently creepy. Not the optimal training ground. I'll let you know when I can make it out there.

[Foilman]

It also depends what kind of board you're using. I noticed that I have a much easier time with side chop and wind by going all the way to the front of the deck pad on my Starboard Allstar. That submerges the tip so the wind and the chop catches more of the board in the back and actually turns it into the wind. Slightly tilting the board to the opposite side will also make it easier turning into the wind if you have a displacement hull. I have absolutely no idea if that helps with a surf style board. 

Rob

[headmount]

One of the things I've figured out is .... that when the wind gusts, bear off with it more, like quartering and then when it lightens you can use the speed you've gained to pull up and head across more.  I've been blown clean off my board with strong gusts so I've learned to look for them coming, signaled by that fizz on the surface.

Even a slight angle across the wind will do the job unless you have immediate hazards like big surf or rocks.  I see most people fall when they hit the wind line outside Maliko and are heading on too hard of a line across the wind. 

DJ's post sounded interesting to me.  If it's over 25mph, I've never dared to lift my upwind rail into the wind.  Weight on DW rail?  Maybe I'm not understanding this right but anytime I've seen someone do that, they go flying.  Maybe it's a matter of wind speed and I do have the luxury of a rudder and a board that planes.  Maybe you haven't seen over 20 but it's always a possibility and when it does blow that hard, you want to be ready.

As far as kneeling goes, don't hesitate for even a second if wind direction alters severely from taking you towards your goal.  Happens to us all the time and once it goes bad, you're losing ground quickly if you try to gut it out on your feet.  We don't have the luxury of a lake and our survival is on the line if we screw up but for you it might be at the very least ... inconvenient.  I've prone paddled in more than once.  That works great.  No ego, only survival.

If you really get hooked on this, get a rudder board.  You can do without it most of the time but eventually you'll really be stoked if you have it.

[CascadeSup]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I really appreciate all the replies.  This is really interesting, and I have lots of things to work on.  We've had a stretch of strange weather with little to no wind, so haven't had a chance yet.   I'm heading back  up to the lake next week, and I hope to get some more time on the water (with bumps).

I got a SIC F14 earlier this summer (from Big Winds), and I'm really loving it.  I've had some balance challenges, so I went for wide and stable.  The F14 really lets me move around on the board.   Maybe my next board will be a rudder board. 

Yeah, not much to worry about downwinding on a lake.   No reefs, and not much in the water except for Sockeye salmon.

[PonoBill]

I'm pretty sure DJ meant upwind side. If you dip the downwind rail the board is likely to blow out from under you, or in lighter winds it will veer downwind. There's nothing like a rudder for crossing winds and swells though. About a week ago I was doing a downwinder and decided the Washington side looked better even though the wind had some north in it. I cut across at about a 45 degree angle and was still getting glides all the way. Catching the swells straight and then turning with the rudder. Felt like it was actually faster than going straight, and it might have been. I cut back at the White salmon bridge the same way, and with the strong winds mid-river and the northerly direction it was like autopilot.

[CascadeSup]

I got back out on the lake for downwinders yesterday and today.   The wind was lighter than I hoped for, but still had plenty of bumps to work with.  Great practice reading the water and paddling into the bumps.  And really nice time on the water.  I'm hoping the wind forecast holds true for tomorrow (15g22).

For both of these runs I started by paddling upwind (mostly on my knees) for about 10 minutes that took me half way across the width of the lake, and all the way up to the upwind end.  From there, back to standing I angled down wind and most of the rest of the way across the width the lake.  By then I was back down into ridable bumps, and lined up for a much better shot down the lake.   And from that starting point I didn't have any trouble working both left and right with the bumps, and staying on a line that took me down the whole length of the lake - just what I hoped for.

I can't say that I've figured out how to ride the bumps at an angle, like you would surfing, but I assume that's something that will come with more TOW, and bigger bumps.

Thanks again!

[DavidJohn]

I'm pretty sure DJ meant upwind side. If you dip the downwind rail the board is likely to blow out from under you, or in lighter winds it will veer downwind. There's nothing like a rudder for crossing winds and swells though. About a week ago I was doing a downwinder and decided the Washington side looked better even though the wind had some north in it. I cut across at about a 45 degree angle and was still getting glides all the way. Catching the swells straight and then turning with the rudder. Felt like it was actually faster than going straight, and it might have been. I cut back at the White salmon bridge the same way, and with the strong winds mid-river and the northerly direction it was like autopilot.

No..I do mean 'downwind' rail..

It's to get the board to do that weird opposite rail turn thing.. Most boards wil do this

[headmount]

I had a visitor who dipped his DW rail on a south side run when he caught a glide.  I was right next to him and in one glide where he went right and I went left (towards shore) we separated width wise by 200 yds.  Normally OK but that particular day it was very offshore and disconcerting to see him go off towards oblivion.

We used to turn the very old windsurfers that way but it wasn't at planning speed.