Author Topic: question about wave size vs board size  (Read 10287 times)

beached

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question about wave size vs board size
« on: July 30, 2014, 10:46:39 AM »
i've currently got a 8'5" custom Simmons style board and a 9' SB Hero. I use the custom for waves up to 6', but then find it's a bit slippery on steeper faces. Anything bigger, I use the Hero as it's tapered more in the tail. I'm a big fan of width, I think more because my height (6'3") than my weight (210 lbs).  I'm totally comfortable on both boards, but feel I need something a bit more challenging and for bigger days as well, so I've been looking around but as I don't have a long surfing history, I'm more than a bit confused about what i should be looking for.

I thought going shorter, less volume, like a 8'2" SB WP or JP Widebody might be the answer.  But reading about them, the comments seem to  say they're for smaller wave days. Are they for smaller wave days only for smaller guys? Or does their design just prevent them from working well for anyone on bigger days? Without going narrow (which i hate...anything below 31" seems narrow to me ), is there a type of board that excels for those bigger days? 

Califoilia

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 11:28:29 AM »
I know that you mentioned that you don't like narrow, but I keep my 8'5" x 29" Chelu just for days that you're describing.

Anything between thigh and a foot or so OH I go to my 7'8" x 30" Retro (Simmons style), at thigh high and below I jump on my 9' x 28" Slater Trout noserider, and anything a couple foot OH and above, I'm on my 8'5" Chelu, just because it's much faster, and has better drive out of the turns than the Retro.....which I believe because of its width in the tail, has a tendency to blow out the back end at top speed, much easier than the 8'5" with its pulled-in tail.

While an inch in width doesn't sound like a lot, when taken into consideration wrt the overall outline and length of the board.....there is a much bigger difference than one might imagine just looking at things on paper (or a shaper's computer screen).

Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

JimK

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 01:21:35 PM »
beached

As a fellow big guy and I sell SB & JP I gotta say SB WP & JP Widestyle are really meant for smaller surf due to rocker configuration, tail width & volume flow. They aren't like little guy small wave boards and big guy big wave boards (those are actually oximorons...)

 I propose a better option a Fanatic ProWave 9'3 these boards rock in bigger surf also have 5 fin option so you can get just the right feel you are looking for. Fast rail to rail and rocker and tail width really bite on steep waves. A little added length (with good rocker flow) will get you into those waves earlier.
Construction is amazing HRS is Durable and reasonablly light & LTD is super light and stiff!

Check'm out and get back (PM me) to me

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com

mrbig

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 01:51:12 PM »
Yep. Bigger wave longer thinner and a little narrower. True guns are slow and very stable. Most of the wide old guy big boards that are 32 wide are not the best choice. That prowave would work if the width us ok for you IMO.
Let it come to you..
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RATbeachrider

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 03:11:28 PM »
Best bet is to talk to a shaper (Joe Blair, Dave of King's SUP, Steve of Infinity, etc.) and get a custom board fitting the local breaks you will be surfing on.

jarvissup

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 04:33:29 PM »
I have a bit of a quiver, and have bought and sold a lot of boards over the last couple of years. I've also had the opportunity to demo a lot of friend's boards including some of those mentioned in this thread.  In my, humble, opinion the Jimmy Lewis Stun Gun's might be the line you are looking for.  They are very good boards in many conditions, but excel in large waves. I rode a 9'2" Stun Gun in the Hurricane Arthur swell here on the Outer Banks and couldn't have asked for a more controllable board. These have become  my favorite boards, they rip, but smooth out imperfect waves, which are common here. Look at the 9'7", or 9'7" if you want extra stability. My 2 cents.

stoneaxe

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 05:59:48 PM »
Demo or swap boards as often as you possibly can. The general (rule, longer, narrower, etc..) applies but there are outliers and too many variables to narrow it more than that. My 9-0 x 34 is surprisingly fast when it gets bigger but with 60 lbs on you the board will surf completely different for me. That said don't limit yourself to over 31" boards. I've been a believer in wider boards for big guys for a long time but my recent rediscovery of my 9-8 x 30 SB element has me reconsidering that. I have yet to get it out in anything big but I'm looking forward to it.
Bob

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AJR

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 06:56:45 PM »
+1 to Stoneax. My Dave Craig 8'11"x29" handles nicely in bigger waves with its pin tail and pulled in nose. Surprisingly my 8'4"x31" SIMSUP ST holds a nice line in bigger stuff too. Not sure how the latter will do with winter waves since I just got it a few months ago.

surfinJ

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 03:49:50 PM »
I guess what would be called "big waves" depends on the surfer.
If the prone surfers are out at your big wave spot on guns you
should be likewise equipped.  A charger measuring 5'6" might be                            on a 9' board but a guy your size needs longer.  I'm 6' 195#
and my sup gun is 10-5x28. 

It's my experience that increased width start to give a negative
effect.  There is a sort of resistance or drag on the initial drop as
widths get too wide.  Long and sleek is the good combo.

When small it can feel slow but at the higher speeds of big waves
there is secure bite, no slip.  That slipperiness comes from a too
wide tail.

SUP Sports ®

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 08:25:05 AM »
Rather than attempting to dispel a laundry list of misinformation, dogma, and/or inaccurate beliefs that I see in this thread, and sprinkled throughout the inter-web for that matter...particularly, pertaining to board width and wave size...I'd rather let the pictures help to do that with far less wordage...;-)
In fact, I'd personally like to see more wordage that is backed up by photo documentation on these forums...it helps me, and I'm sure others, to understand perspective...especially, when it comes to connecting the names on forums with skill sets and surf venues...for example, let's see pics of those making the recommendations...I'm trying to understand what "big waves" we are talking about here...specifically, connected to the board recommendations that are being made...

I will offer recommendations  to "beached" from my own board line...with pics of my staff and I riding them specifically in the kind of surf that I think we are talking about...and, also more general thoughts that relate to his original subject line...

These are based on my own experience(s) gained from over 40 years of surfing, over 30 years of windsurfing, and now 10 years of standup paddlesurfing in waves from ankle biters to big and a half...;-)

It looks like beached is from Florida...so, we're not talking XXXL rated big wave surfing, here...more like overhead to solid overhead beach break type surf during a real swell, like he says...over 6'...really fun size for performance paddlesurfing...we have shipped lots of boards to the East Coast over the years...both, our production versions as well as building lots of customs fro this kind of surf...

IMO, based on the info provided, the tail may be OK on the SB Hero when the surf gets bigger...but, that big wide nose with it's 50/50 rails isn't good...
There are things that we can do with fin optimization...but, there is nothing you can do to minimize the issues caused by that kind of nose width in steeper, hollower, beach break...

Board widths of 31" - 33" are not a liability in surf that size, or even double that size...neither are boards with wider tails, if they are designed and finned properly...I have years of personal experience and photo proof of this...in many of the pics, I was over 200#...now, down in the 185# zone...all boards are 31" - 33.5" widths...

My 8'10" x 32" WD is ridden in that kind of surf regularly...basically, the same board that Starboard put in production several years ago as the 8'10" Wide Point with my signature...we also make that same board 4" longer as a 9'2" WD...for, paddlesurfers that love the looseness...but, want a bit more glide...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2012/12/wd-series-sups.html

My Hammer Series boards have more tail width...and, we have not experienced adverse issues with this when used in bigger surf...
I've ridden both the 8'11" x 31" and 9'5" x 31" Hammers in over double overhead surf...Big Will (6'5" x 250#) has put his 9'5" x 33" Hammer is sizable winter surf as well...same with his 10'3" x 33" Mahalo...

http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp

So, for a sub-9' board, I would recommend my 8'10" WD or 8'11" Hammer...both are gonna be a huge improvement in bigger surf over the 9' SB Hero...even, smaller surf for that matter...;-)



« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 08:34:15 AM by SUPsports »
Mahalos...{:~)

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beached

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 09:33:05 AM »
I greatly appreciate all the comments here. It's a good learning experience, if nothing else. Some folks definitely don't seem to like the wide concept, period. but again, in my limited experience of about 3-4 years of SUP surfing, wide is all i've been happy with. i've gotten rid of all boards within  a short time if they've been less than 32".  maybe i'm balance-challenged.

but SUPSports, you kind of hit it on the head for me. I'm in FL most of the year, and it rarely gets over 6 ft, but when it does, I want a board that can handle it (better than i can!). And if it's not that big, I want to be able to whip around that same board in our usual stuff. Maybe I'm dreaming. But I'd be more inclined to try the 7'11" Hammer than the 8'11", and maybe having the slightly wider tail would prevent 31" from being a problem for me.       

SUP Sports ®

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 09:54:47 AM »
I greatly appreciate all the comments here. It's a good learning experience, if nothing else. Some folks definitely don't seem to like the wide concept, period. but again, in my limited experience of about 3-4 years of SUP surfing, wide is all i've been happy with. i've gotten rid of all boards within  a short time if they've been less than 32".  maybe i'm balance-challenged.

but SUPSports, you kind of hit it on the head for me. I'm in FL most of the year, and it rarely gets over 6 ft, but when it does, I want a board that can handle it (better than i can!). And if it's not that big, I want to be able to whip around that same board in our usual stuff. Maybe I'm dreaming. But I'd be more inclined to try the 7'11" Hammer than the 8'11", and maybe having the slightly wider tail would prevent 31" from being a problem for me.     

Aloha beached,
The stock 7'11" x 31" could work for you @ 132 liters...I've ridden it when I was over 200# and it felt comfortable...way more comfortable than any sub-8" SUP that I have been on...I'm also building a 7'10" x 33" Jammer for myself that should be fun...

We could easily build you a custom Hammer at 32" wide dims...or, whatever L X W X T @  (X) vol...you want...
I tweak the stock sizes for customs all of the time...and, yes...the tail width will help you...an even bigger positive factor is the volume distribution...;-)
The "Chisel Tail" doesn't bog down and lose speed when it is sunk...it carries the board speed thru your cutbacks...

The 8'5" production might be a safer bet...all depends on what you want...but, I guaranty it will blow the doors off of your SB Hero...;-)
It will easily take your paddle surfing to a whole new level that you may not have thought possible...isn't that one of the points of standup?
It's baffling to me how many guys are making it so hard on themselves by having to be on the smallest and sinkiest board in the water to be cool...there is a point of diminishing return...might as well just prone surf...because, knee paddling a submarine is not cool, IMO...;-)

Here's a good testimonial that we received recently from a guy that went with our stock 8'5" Hammer...he's also a kiter...

"I’d seen all the photos posted, read all about why mini simmons, and egg shapes, how nose concaves and double v in the tail all work to create a sick ride so I snagged the 8’5 on faith.
IT DID NOT DISAPPOINT!"

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2014/07/hammer-testimonials.html

I love the 8'11"...perfect one design minimalist quiver...but, I ride the smaller ones too...
The new 8'11" Hammer that I'm building for myself has a mast track...;-)

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2014/07/hammer-sup-series.html
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:05:04 AM by SUPsports »
Mahalos...{:~)

WARDOG ®
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(805)962-SUPS (7877) store
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Retail Store:
Standup Paddle Sports, LLC
121 Santa Barbara St.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101

SlatchJim

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 10:08:35 AM »
Have you tried to change up your fin sizes and placement on the hero?
How many other boards have you tried in larger surf to use as a comparison?
How big are we talking here?

Like most people, my first impulse is to tell you what works for me, but I assure you that there are more differences than similarities when it comes to rider style, size, condition, experience, surf locations, and swell quality.  I'd suggest trying out the inexpensive fixes before blowing it out on a new board that may or may not answer your questions.  Start with fin swaps and demos.  Borrow boards until you can almost customize what you want.  After that, either find a deal on a board that most closely approximates what you're brain tells you will work, or pull the trigger on a custom.

Disclaimer: It should be noted that I've surfed on about only about 10 or 12 different models of sup, most purchased from Wardog and my current go to board is a Hammer.  I've also surfed with SanoSup and he's an excellent surfer with tastes that vary from mine based on his ability to balance on smaller boards (among other skills). My wife has an 8-10 hammer that I'll want when I lose some lbs. and she steps down to the 8-5...(sinister hand rub).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:28:47 AM by SlatchJim »

surfinJ

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2014, 12:23:47 AM »
It sounds like your big waves are like the pictures shown and I would agree
that 32-33 is a good width. This is the board I've got for that.  9-6x32 super
stable and tail isn't wide.



For these waves I like a lot of board.




Califoilia

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Re: question about wave size vs board size
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2014, 01:49:30 PM »
After reading the posts, and looking at the pictures.....I kind of thinking that one first has to decide on what they want to do on a wave of any size (or attempt to do in my case :-[)....then decide what board, and/or dimensions would work best for that style of riding.

Do you attack (or again in my case....attempt to attack) a wave, and drive off the bottom and smack the top turns as often as possible, or do you prefer to drop in a wave, find the pocket, and cruise until the wave runs its coarse.....or are you somewhere in between the two, as I would guess most would be?  Not to forget about the noseriders, and "helicopterers" out there.

Slatch makes a good point, that we all have our preferences as a result of what we look to do on a board (or can do).....and as a result, what one person swears by in a board, is the exact opposite of  what another might think works great.

That said, reading your posts again "beached", forget about what I said in my first post to you (if you haven't already ;))....I think you're getting better, and more appropriate suggestions from others posting here.

Good luck in your search, it's one of the real fun times in the sport....when you know you want/need something different, and get to do all the research and head scratching to figure just what "different" is best for you.


Have fun,
SS
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 01:53:48 PM by SanoSup »
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

 


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