Author Topic: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping  (Read 8154 times)

SURFUR72

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Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« on: July 28, 2014, 07:41:22 AM »
Hi Everyone, I've been following this forum for about a year now and have been intrigued by the level of expertize many of you have and are willing to share. I would like the opportunity to collaborate with someone in the South Carolina area on a project that has been in the works for 25 years.

  A little about me. At the age of 11 we moved to Florida and I saw the ocean (ST Augustine pier) for the first time. I also saw a man riding waves and had to experience it for myself. Someone at the beach pushed me into my first ride that day and I was hooked. Within 6 months I had purchased an old board for $20 (would have been a collectors item now) and wanted to go to the beach every day. At the age of 16 I shaped my first 9' longboard and was hooked on shaping as well. Sometime soon after that I had the good fortune of helping George Robinson shape 3 balsa longboards and was introduced to chambering. As a forth generation woodworker I was not impressed with the methods (seemed crude) and soon set out to refine them. My ideas have evolved over the years but have never went anywhere beyond ideas and a few prototypes.

  CNC machines made a huge impression on me and 12 years ago I purchased one for my cabinet shop. I knew immediately the possibilities of shaping surfboards with the machine but at the time no software existed dedicated to surfboard design. Time and circumstances continued to plague any advance of my ideas but that has changed in the last few years. I have been using 2 very powerful 3D modeling softwares and have worked out some methods of machining on the technical side. I also have fallen in love with Suping and want to make a chambered wooden Standup board. I am now at a point to where I need to learn a surfboard design software like Boardcad. I've been playing around with it but can't figure out some of the fundamentals. I also have read that it requires experience and care to get a clean surface. With what I'm doing the surface quality is key. I will be machining the surface cleanly with no material left for hand work.

  If someone with knowledge of the software is interested in tutoring me , I would be more than happy to cnc shape a few boards. My machine is 12' long but we can make a sliding fixture if you need to make a longer SUP. I'm located in Anderson, South Carolina.

Sorry for the long post, FC       

surfcowboy

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 08:18:21 AM »
I'd also love to get a tutorial on one of the apps.  Might be able to offer a few dollars or a trade of some sort.

I've been wanting to learn a 3d program, this might be a good intro.

Great to see you pushing your knowledge forward.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 08:29:20 AM »
I believe most pros use Shape3D. So if you're going to invest in learning a program, I'd suggest that one.

Only saying this because, if pros prefer it, there must be a reason.

I use Autodesk Inventor, only because I know it well.

wildman

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 09:34:56 AM »
We have a 20' long, 5' wide, 2' deep CNC shaping machine. After hand shaping thousands of boards, I'll never go back to the planer. Speed, repeatability, accuracy and reduced fatigue are huge benefits afforded us by the CNC. And, Shape 3D is simply amazing.

SURFUR72

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 10:50:59 AM »
I have played with the free version of Shape 3D and it seems to be the same as BoardCad in most functions. The main thing about BC is I can export to a step. file. This allows me to take it into a very powerful 3D modeling program (NX CAM 8.5) and complete the design work. It also gives me sophisticated CAM abilities. If S3D can export to a useable CAD file I will look into buying it however this is something I'm interested for hobby purposes. I would rather spend the money on more Paulownia wood  :).

FC

TallDude

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 12:04:11 PM »
I'm an experienced AutoCAD user. I don't program in Lisp, so I would call myself an expert. I design homes and do structural drawings so I use a variety of 3D type of programs. The first 18' race board I designed was in AutoCAD. I did it all in surfaces, then exported it to a DXF file. It was a major time consuming pain in the ass. The guy who CNC'd the board for me was able to import the DXF file into his CNC software. Now I have both BoardCad and Shape3DX free versions. I prefer Shape3DX mainly because I've spent the time familiarizing myself with it. I can shape a board in minutes in Shape3D. Most of the production shapers I know use Shape3D. The guys at Marko and other CNC foam suppliers in my area have and know Shape3D.

The purchased version of Shape3DX exports (and imports?) a generic DXF file. I've had a number of boards cut from my S3D files in the 'free version'. Plus with the new Shape3DX I can view and orbit the board in a shaded 3D mode. The older free version would only allow you to view in a 3D wireframe. Your CNC machine software probably accepts a DXF file, but you need access to a full paid version of Shape3DX :(
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 12:29:13 PM by TallDude »
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

SURFUR72

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 02:25:31 PM »
Talldude, from what I know about dxf files you cannot get good 3D surface info. Maybe you can enlighten me as to how that works. I'm also pretty fluent in Solidworks and have a 3 axis cam plugin for it. NX CAM is way more powerful for contouring and organic shapes.

FC

55NSup

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 09:38:25 AM »
Ive worked with 2d Cad and 3D CAD in industrial design since the beginnings in the late 80's. Now I have a team of 3D modelers and animators working for me ar Sony Mobile Communications.  The 3D modelers us NX and have been on it for many years.
I have used Alias,  Pro-E,  Rhino and now solidworks. Used S3D to shape my 16-5 and made hotwire templates from that file to handshape it. It is super easy, and almost anyone can learn it by follwing the tutorials.
One of the most experienced 3D guys showed me how he would model a board in NX,  and  it would allow the most surface  control, but not be the easiest to learn, and licence is very expensive. I also know the surfaces and mathmatics in NX are the benchmark for quality and accuracy.

If I had a CnC facility near me I would use S3D. Now im going back to solidworks because I can more easily make hotwire templates from it, and i dont need to make super accurate model, just enough to work out volume and center of buoyancy.

magentawave

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2014, 05:30:43 PM »
A friend of mine who surfs has a CNC machine for his cabinet shop too. Have you figured out whats needed to make your CNC machine shape surfboards and SUP's yet?

Hi Everyone, I've been following this forum for about a year now and have been intrigued by the level of expertize many of you have and are willing to share. I would like the opportunity to collaborate with someone in the South Carolina area on a project that has been in the works for 25 years.

  A little about me. At the age of 11 we moved to Florida and I saw the ocean (ST Augustine pier) for the first time. I also saw a man riding waves and had to experience it for myself. Someone at the beach pushed me into my first ride that day and I was hooked. Within 6 months I had purchased an old board for $20 (would have been a collectors item now) and wanted to go to the beach every day. At the age of 16 I shaped my first 9' longboard and was hooked on shaping as well. Sometime soon after that I had the good fortune of helping George Robinson shape 3 balsa longboards and was introduced to chambering. As a forth generation woodworker I was not impressed with the methods (seemed crude) and soon set out to refine them. My ideas have evolved over the years but have never went anywhere beyond ideas and a few prototypes.

  CNC machines made a huge impression on me and 12 years ago I purchased one for my cabinet shop. I knew immediately the possibilities of shaping surfboards with the machine but at the time no software existed dedicated to surfboard design. Time and circumstances continued to plague any advance of my ideas but that has changed in the last few years. I have been using 2 very powerful 3D modeling softwares and have worked out some methods of machining on the technical side. I also have fallen in love with Suping and want to make a chambered wooden Standup board. I am now at a point to where I need to learn a surfboard design software like Boardcad. I've been playing around with it but can't figure out some of the fundamentals. I also have read that it requires experience and care to get a clean surface. With what I'm doing the surface quality is key. I will be machining the surface cleanly with no material left for hand work.

  If someone with knowledge of the software is interested in tutoring me , I would be more than happy to cnc shape a few boards. My machine is 12' long but we can make a sliding fixture if you need to make a longer SUP. I'm located in Anderson, South Carolina.

Sorry for the long post, FC     
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

55NSup

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 10:59:30 AM »
The guy who CnC mills my templates has a cabinet shop CnC with 150mm Z axis travel and 1200 x 2400 x-y travel.
He was really interested in trying to CnC a shape out of foam for me, and I did a lot of thinking about how to do that.
Things that needed to be solved were how to hold board once one side was milled, how to split it up and glue it back together all aligned.
It became so complicated,  it wasn't going to be a sustainable approach. 

So he just mills the templates. I can shape it out pretty quick using those templates, and the templates can be reused.

Wetstuff

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2014, 07:50:07 AM »
72,  There's a fellow Kami who posts frequently on the OZ forum.. you may ask him what he used to layout this juicy looking item.

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Heres-the-latest-Tomo-SB/


Jim
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magentawave

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 11:08:12 AM »
Kami used the Tomo Vanguard or Vader as inspiration and Shape 3D to design it.

I just found out Shape 3D works on a Mac now so I'm downloading the free version right now. Thanks.

72,  There's a fellow Kami who posts frequently on the OZ forum.. you may ask him what he used to layout this juicy looking item.

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Heres-the-latest-Tomo-SB/


Jim
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

55NSup

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 01:55:28 AM »
all this talk about shaping machines gets me thinking: why use a machine to do the fun part ?
OK i know its more accurate and fast for pros, but for me, the hand shaping part is the fun part.

What i want is a lamination and finishing machine. figure that one out.
Spray on a nanofiber and matrix mush ( align fibers somehow), wrap it in a thin LDPE tube,  vacuum it,  and UV for curing.

I suppose vacuum infusion is getting close- but its really complicated and dependent on shape.

supuk

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 12:49:59 PM »
all this talk about shaping machines gets me thinking: why use a machine to do the fun part ?
OK i know its more accurate and fast for pros, but for me, the hand shaping part is the fun part.

What i want is a lamination and finishing machine. figure that one out.
Spray on a nanofiber and matrix mush ( align fibers somehow), wrap it in a thin LDPE tube,  vacuum it,  and UV for curing.

I suppose vacuum infusion is getting close- but its really complicated and dependent on shape.

It's just down to personal preference like anything else. The main reason I have built a machine is so I can make very fine and precise adjustments to my designs and replicate or go back stages in a design process. It is also going to allow me to make complicated and large moulds for prototype with out the need to make a plug and to experiment and get creative in many other ways. I love the hands on side but having a cnc to back this up is going to be amazing !

This is a test cut straight off the machine and would be literally ready to glass without even having to fine sand.   




surfcowboy

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Re: Introduction and Discussion on CNC shaping
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 01:27:52 PM »
UK, that cut is amazing.

I'm learning to lam and shape but sometimes you just want one set of problems to solve. ;)

 


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