Author Topic: Fastest sailing WindSUP?  (Read 22153 times)

SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2015, 11:54:58 AM »
I think these rocker shots with the Exocet Kona Mini-Tanker will help show why the Hammer is so fast...on a wave...or, sail assisted...let alone the extra help from the bottom hydrodynamics...
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spookini

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 01:38:52 PM »
WD, how much does Alyson in the pic weigh?
I'd love to go small as possible (board, that is) but wonder if for my fat ole self (160lbs),  8'5" would be better choice..
Mix of sailing and sus'ing.  Equally challenged at both  ???
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SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2015, 08:20:59 AM »
She's not tiny...but, my Hammer surfboard/SUP crossover floated her fine...
When I was over 200#, I could still ride the 7'11" x 31" Hammer...we've made smaller, thinner ones that were too much work for me at that weight...
I can design and build it at any dims and volume you want...but, I do keep CNC machine cuts of our 8 production sizes in stock to cut a couple of weeks off of the turnaround time...we just turned one out in 10 days! The planets aligned for this client...

I think the 8'5" for you would be a good size...especially, since you say that you're a bit challenged at both SUP and sailing...volume is your friend...;-)

It's a really fun board...constantly checked out of our demo fleet...very popular for us...

We've built an 8'5" with a mast track before...pics below...all of the black showing is actually exposed carbon...

I'd like to have one myself...but, my 8'11" is my "one design"...can't see carrying two WindSUP's that close in size in my already overloaded toy hauler...;-)
Mahalos...{:~)

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jpeter

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2015, 02:47:15 PM »
I got a Sealion XL last spring.   It feels like it would be easy to get on a full plane as you are getting powered more and more,  but it is slow.  HOWEVER ...  It jumps onto a wave and feels great in very little wind.   I am so stoked to have gotten 30 wave sailing sessions on this board for the season.   Onshore, side-on, side, side-off,   used it every way.  For side shore, it's not going to really plane heading out,  you do an effortless schlog,  turn around and catch a wave coming in.  I sailed some on-shore conditions where I pretty much stayed on a plane the whole time as long as I was in the wave zone.

For the last 10 years I just windsurfed when it was over 20mph,  5.3 sail on a 8'6 Naish wave.  (I weigh in at 175 lbs, 6'4")  Every other larger board I ever used just felt like crap to me.   

I now have an inbetween range I would like to explore.   Say winds enough to marginal waterstart,  but less than 20.    I sailed the Sealion in super light conditions,  and got some great riding in.   Problem is I would stay on the Sealion when it was getting near the 20mph area and its draggy.  Some days footstraps seemed like they might be nice as well.  I will keep the sealion for the sub 15mph days and paddlesurfing.   

Thinking my answer is Goya 104 quad or Quattro 110 quad.   

WindSupping kicks ass,   being out when the kiters are marginal or going home when waves are good.

JP

Philn

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2015, 02:31:22 PM »
Jpeter, I have the 110 L Quattro Quad and it replaced my RRD 8'5 WasSUP. The WasSup was better for climbing over white water in 10 mph winds, but if the wind is 12-14 mph or I'm slogging at a spot with a decent channel the 110 L Quattro is far superior. Once I'm on a wave and my feet in the straps the apparent wind takes over and I can even pull off aerials in 10-12 mph. I demoed one of the very first versions of the Goya 104 about 6 years ago and at the time (coming from a fast planing FSW) wasn't impressed. But I've heard they made changes to the Goya in 2013 or 2014 that made it much livelier.


SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2015, 04:03:56 PM »
Haven't had time to edit the video...coming soon...;-)

In the mean time here's some pics and frame grabs of a fun day out windSUP'n on the 8'11" Hammer...really fun board...planes up comfortably...sails like a dream...very foot steerable...responsive to rider input...goes to weather comfortably...at one point I tried to make it happen on my light air board the venerable Exocet Cross 118...never got in the foot straps...the Hammer took it in these side-on conditions by a country mile...
IMO, embodies all of the elements of the ultimate holy grail "one design"...

Responsive image gallery:

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2015/02/hammer-windsup.html
Mahalos...{:~)

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PonoBill

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2015, 04:32:36 PM »
Perfect sail for that. I love Superfreaks on any larger board. Caddillac power vs. Peaky Porsches of most sails. Not that I'm usually into Caddy's, but great on my shoulders.
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SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2015, 05:05:14 PM »
Perfect sail for that. I love Superfreaks on any larger board. Caddillac power vs. Peaky Porsches of most sails. Not that I'm usually into Caddy's, but great on my shoulders.

Yeppers...full agreement, Bill...I'm a full SUPerFreak fan...that Dacron Rasta Freak I was on today is 10 years old...;-)
Although, rigged with SUPer expensive 100% US made carbon mast and booms...I have a stash of those as well...but, unfortunately, no longer made as far as I know...:-(

http://surfingsports.com/isla_vista/index.html

http://surfingsports.com/isla_vista_longboard/index.html

I invested in America's Cup Cuben Fiber sail technology with the Aerotech Charge and Phantom line...sooo sooo lightweight...but, was discontinued because of the cost...fortunately, we still have 4 of them...the two bigger ones, our biggest sails...(6.2m2 & 6.8m2) only got rigged for the first time 2 and 3  years ago...;-)

So glad that we didn't leave then at our property in Mexico...or, at our Alaska in-law's storage locker on Maui...;-)



http://blog.surfingsports.com/2013/05/windsurfing-lake-lopez.html

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http://blog.surfingsports.com/2012/04/fun-day-at-the-lake.html
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 05:07:59 PM by SUPsports »
Mahalos...{:~)

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SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2015, 05:23:10 PM »
Perfect sail for that. I love Superfreaks on any larger board. Caddillac power vs. Peaky Porsches of most sails. Not that I'm usually into Caddy's, but great on my shoulders.

I also sailed Deb's 5.0m2 Peace Freak for awhile on the 8'11" Hammer WindSUP early on...but, after several light puffy side-on breezes I decided to put up the 5.8m2 Rasta Freak...since it was only baffing...back & forth sailing...;-)

Howevers...I've had some epic sessions with her sail...;-)
Who doesn't love 5.0m2 sideoff down the line in perfect waves anywhere on the planet...pure heroin/champagne speedball...;-)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 05:40:17 PM by SUPsports »
Mahalos...{:~)

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SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP? (VIDEO)
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2015, 07:24:18 AM »
Here's a vid clip showing the 8'11" Hammer easily planing up in light side-onshore choppy ocean conditions...



http://blog.surfingsports.com/2015/02/hammer-windsup.html
Mahalos...{:~)

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AlexFun

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2015, 06:03:07 AM »
In the "Hammer WindSup Video" thread Warren and i discussed the even better properties the SUP Sports Mallet would have for windsurfing, since it has even less rocker than the hammer.
Regarding the (my) Sealion XL i have the same impressions like jpeter, a good board, but some issues to improve.
Another thing i'd like to know if anybody has ever windsurfed a Simsup or a Tomo/Vanguard Shape?
The Simsup looks like a Slalomboard outline, the Tomo concept now will convert in the new Fanatic Stubby Waveboard.
What puzzles me most is that i know nothing about the rockerlines of these boards.
Warren said the Mallet would have a rockerline like his older Slalomboards, but how are the rockers exactly?
On the Pics the Mallet seems to have a flat middlesection but quite some tailrocker, whereas the Hammer has no tailkick despite the Chisseltail but a overall flatter rocker in the tail.
Slalomboards normally a dead flat in the tail, only having 1 - 2 mm tailkick.
Windsurfwaveboards usually have arround 1 - 3 cm of tailkick, using the method by putting a scale 1m from the tail.
Comparing or scaling outlines and rails is vissually possible looking at the pics and drawings.
But could anyone in the know enlighten me about the rockerlines, measurde with the same method of:
1. Windurfing Slalomboard
2. Windsurfing Waveboard (i could measure my Goya boards by myself if given the method)
3. Sealion XL (i could measure that by myself if given the method)
4. Classic 9' Wavesup e. g. Naish Mana / Hokua or Fanatic Allwave
5. Simsup
6. Sup Sports Mallet / Hammer (Warren?)
7. Others (just to learn more)
Thanx alot guys.
Alex
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 06:04:55 AM by AlexFun »

outcast

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2015, 08:31:42 AM »
Alex.
  I hear you on the Tomo question.
  If I had (have) one. ...I would drop a mast plug in there pronto.

  Jager Stone has been on a Tomo-styled windsurf for a while  (Dad shapes them), and he just changed sponsors....so yeah, I bet we see more next year.
  In action:

  The nose is probably more just a trick to get swing weight down, and the swallow tail keeps it wide.
  I suspect the biggest impediment to a good sailing Tomo would be the rails (not boxy enough) and needing the right fin combo.....but a lot makes sense, and I suspect we will see more
 
  My experiments have included a bunch of stuff but I'm happiest on a long board with glide because that's where I can have the most fun in offshore light winds....carrying speed to generate apparent wind.   
  The shorter stuff is not so much fun as I can plane up better on the trusty Cross 117, and anything less, I'm paddling.   Would own a Sealion or a Hammer if I had any more room in or near the shed
  I paddled a full-on Slalom 130, but decided no fun unless I changed fins....which I'm not going to do often with the Tuttle system.
  Converted a Starboard Go to a quad!...super fun, but again it's like how much stuff do you want to drag to the beach?
  Rockers?
    That Hammer looks plenty flat....and the Minitanker was a good comparison.
          I am not sure though that you should just look at rocker.....the rails for sailing are very important, and the last 2 feet of rocker has little to do with things unless it's coupled with the overall rocker and intended speed.
          Slalom boards still have rocker, but they don't have to worry about nose kick for a wave-drop....in fact the nose just makes air drag when smoking along.  So yeah like a 1" rise over 24"....but it ain't gonna turn at wave riding speeds because it's a box. And you dont' wanna turn  on a wave at the speed it wants!!!
 
     The classic wave sups are too much banana for me, but I can get the Laird smoking once I'm tucked in the curl with apparent wind..... 
       
       I like the Hammer look for a one board quiver, but my best sup sailing is in 45 degree offshore, and again, I go for the glide of a 10'6 Laird  in that...I have a Munoz 11 with a mast box.....absolutely a giggle-board!....but somewhere around head high it gets redonkulous....
       it all depends on how you feel on any given day....but sups and supsailing did make kites redundant.....UNLESS you want to talk about foils...I'm afraid that the kites will get the nod there for a while
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 08:51:07 AM by outcast »

SUPsports

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2015, 10:55:38 AM »
Aloha Alex,
I would rather not give out the dims, especially rocker dims on a schematic...too easily reproduced without monetizing my R&D...
With my CAD Shape 3DX file, my IP is protected to some extent because  I can set a timer so that the file can't be opened past a certain date...

These graphics show a little of what you alluded to pertaining to bottom rocker lines...remember, there is also a deck rocker line...and, the rails help tie everything together...

Also, I hear "outcast" on the Cross 117...lots of time on it...then it's replacement, the Cross 118...epic times...
That's where my Hammer WindSUP bridges the gap between planing windsurfing and standup paddle surfing...would much rather be shlogging, bob and catch, on a Hammer than the Cross 118...



Mahalos...{:~)

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AlexFun

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2015, 10:13:05 AM »
Warren,
I do understand you, the rockerlinie is the real secret of magic boards.
I'll try to check if 3DX will work for him.

Regarding your comparative chart of the rocker profiles, the Mallet looks like it has a massive tailkick, but on the pics with the slalomboards it looks more flatish.

Do you plan to built yourself a Mallet windsup in the near future?
Otherwise the Hammer 8'11 or 8'5  would be the sure bet.
Could you compare the stabillity in chop of a Sealion XL, 9' x 29.75, 150 liters,  to your sizes of Hammer and Mallet?

Regarding fastest planing: I'm playing with the idea of putting in a deeptuttle box as center box to use this board also with a Foil from Horue.
http://www.horue.fr/produits/
This would really fire the board up in light wind and flat water since as long as there are waves slog and ride doesn't bother me regarding the "slog" part, the board doesn't need to plan on the way out.
SUP + Foil is the next big thing at our french friends at AHD:
http://www.ahd-boards.com/models/sealion-wings-2/
Alex

AlexFun

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2015, 12:12:03 PM »
Sorry for the monolog, but i did measure my boards today to get a feeling for the Rockers:

Method: Put a 2 meter bar on the board so that  it's sitting balanced on the board 1 meter from the tail, measure rocker at the tailend, second check for flat areas on the bottom:

Windsurfboards
Starboard Aero 127 , 9 mm rocker, flat area 60 cm, starting at the front of the finbox
Goya One 105, 22 mm rocker, flat area 60 cm , starting at the front of the finbox
Goya Custom Quad 94, 20 mm rocker, flat area 60cm, starting at the front of the finbox

SUP
Starboard Converse 9'0, 42 mm rocker, flat area 30cm, 85 - 115 cm from the tail
Sealion XL, 50 mm rocker, no flat area !!

Now it's clear to me why the Sealion XL doesn't plan that good!
Seems like a standard rockerline with a Fish outline, just some harder/fuller rails, hmm? Time for a rework of this shape????!!!
I have no measure of the Sealion 7'6 but this board did plan far better, and AHD says it has the flattest rocker.

Question remains how much rocker the other here mentioned boards have, esp. Mallet, Hammer, JP Magic Ride, Exocets etc.
Alex
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 12:13:56 PM by AlexFun »

 


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