Author Topic: Fastest sailing WindSUP?  (Read 22098 times)

dabigkahuna

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Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« on: July 22, 2014, 08:10:12 PM »
Are there any WindSUP's out there that could be considered an "early planer"?  I tried my Starboard Avanti, then a Formula Windsurfer, now I'm wondering if there might be something half way between the two that's worth looking at?

alap

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 08:50:37 PM »
you want smthng. that planes earlier than Formula?
I doubt it exists...

DavidJohn

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 10:26:40 PM »
I've tried a few and found the 10'10'' Nalu the best.. Must be the channels..


DW

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 05:26:25 AM »
Are there any WindSUP's out there that could be considered an "early planer"?  I tried my Starboard Avanti, then a Formula Windsurfer, now I'm wondering if there might be something half way between the two that's worth looking at?

I chatted with Steve Gottlieb (Aerotech designer and Exocet importer) about this at his store maybe 1 1/2 years ago. We were both on the same page about windSUPs not getting it done windsurf wise. A more windsurf rocker would make them a lot more fun. I had just shaped myself one (windsurf rocker) and it was a blast.

He had just sailed some prototype Exocet's that had windsurf rockers and notched tails that made them SUP surf better than you would expect. I don't know the model names they were given, but with some asking around, you might be able to figure out what Exocet he was talking about. They would have been new to the 2014 lineup. Provided you don't mind the un-cool tail in the board when you SUP surf it. But hey, if it works good enough, what the heck.

After spending the last 1 1/2 years windsurfing my strapless windsurfer (looks like a SUP) we became curious about these new class of real windsurfers, with straps, that look like shortboard SUPs. Thin rails, flat decks, large deck pads. Same widths as SUPs.

They are believed by some, to be the future of board design. The reasoning is the much thinner boards, maintain the control and ease of use of narrow boards, while the width and short length provide nimble handling with early planing. The wife and I are sold on the concept. We sold our old narrow boards. We're now windsurfing boards we would have considered for kooks only and loving them. They are that good! Here is an old video talking about the concept of the design.

We bought the equivalent from JP, called the Magic Ride. I've SUPed mine. The dimensions are identical to most mini-SIM sups. 7'10 x 29.9 wide. I did add a full SUP pad to ours. RRD got that part right with the large pad. JP got it wrong using pads just at the straps.

It's funny, but after windsurfing the Magic Rides and going back to our old Freestyle Wave JPs, we just hated the Freestyle Waves. They felt like trying to windsurf round logs.  Standing so high up above the water, on a deck surface that felt completely round. The Magic Rides felt like our beloved SUPs. Flat decks, low to the water. So much more at home and comfortable. More like a surfboard under your feet versus a log. When the wind quits, doesn't matter. You still cruise upwind like a hero, just like you do on a windSUP.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 05:54:40 AM by DW »

dabigkahuna

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 06:06:08 AM »
@DW - Sounds like you're thinking along the same lines that I am.  My Avanti is 11'2"x36" x 230 liters.  My Formula windsurfer is roughly 9' x 39" x 170 liters.  What keeps my Avanti from planing is it's massive rocker, massive weight and fin configuration.  I think I could SUP (on flat water) my Formula board but dragging around that 70 cm deep fin would be pretty limiting.  And the Formula board would be worthless in any waves at all.  I was wondering if there might be something somewhere in between the two.  Just a small amount of rocker (to handle chop and some waves but not so much as to limit planing), wide enough for stability, and a fin box that supports deep fins.  The RRD Firemove and that JP sound like they might be the ticket.

DW

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 06:17:00 AM »
When I test session SUPed my 118 Magic Ride, I just swapped the fin out for 10" wave sailing fin. It worked great.

If I ever go to the beach to windsurf and the wind dies, but the surf is good, and didn't have my real SUPs with me, I'd surf the Magic Ride and have a blast.

My Magic Ride is full vee bottom. It may explain part of what makes it so comfortable when it gets choppy sailing. And part of why it surfs so well for a windsurf rocker.


yugi

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 06:28:02 AM »
hmmmmmmmm...  Gotta try one.

True,  my 11'2 Naish Nalu has way too much rocker to take off and plane (until I am standing on the fi and then 7/8's of the board is out of the water in a giant wheelie).

Which Firemove you reckon? 120L (29.5" wide)

I've got a place I can probably try the JP Magic Ride 118

dabigkahuna

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 06:32:03 AM »
Anything bigger out there?  I just checked the Magic Ride and Firemove and they both top out at around 130/140 liters.  I'd really like to find something around 170 liters.

AGK

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 07:41:25 AM »
Flat decks, low to the water. So much more at home and comfortable. More like a surfboard under your feet versus a log. When the wind quits, doesn't matter. You still cruise upwind like a hero, just like you do on a windSUP.

Hey DW --

Thanks to you (and everyone) for this thread -- this is highly relevant to me and, I expect, most windsurfers gone to SUP.  Could you expound a little bit more on how well the ~120liter Magic Ride does in low wind?  One of the things I love about my 12' Ron House custom is how easy it is to sail in up-and-down winds (no hula!) and getting back upwind to an offshore launch.  The downside is the limited top end and long turnig radius (although they aren't bad).  Do you find the thin, wide, short boards are good in highly gusty and/or low wind conditions?

Thanks!

Andy

DW

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 10:41:31 AM »
Could you expound a little bit more on how well the ~120liter Magic Ride does in low wind? 
Andy

Planing threshold with a 6.9m is about where a 12m kite is. Probably 13 mph.  As long as its gusting to 15mph, mixed with that 13, its fun. I'm 172 lbs right now.

The most enjoyable point for the wife and I, is really how well it does when the wind is crappy. I'm talking about plane a little, putt-putt a little and not care in the least that you're not planing. You still stay upwind! :D  In the ocean with current!  :D We up-haul with ease in huge rolling seas and no wind  ;D ;D ;D  My wife really loves that part. Me too actually. Oh, and no fancy footwork or board dancing required.

We stopped sailing SUPs completely.

During one of our recent ocean sessions, we were both talking about how we were really thermal cloud windsurfing the ocean. No wind, then blowing like stink. (normal conditions for lake sailors). We were certain, us or any other windsurfers that day, without those style boards, would have spent the day sitting on the beach.

Of course big windsurfers for guys who live on lakes have always been available, but those boards never worked in the ocean. They'd be out of control and expert windsurfers would hate them in the surf.




AGK

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 12:04:28 PM »
Thanks for the information, DW - sounds like a really good option for me.  Time to start saving my pennies!

alap

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 09:58:32 PM »


If I ever go to the beach to windsurf..., and didn't have my real SUPs with me, I'd surf the Magic Ride and have a blast.


DW, you are kidding , right?  ;)
that scenario is hard to envision.... :D :D :D

with regards to the ease of uphauling this is mostly related to the width, not to the volume, IMHO
so is shlogging upwind, wide board, easy balance, plus so easy to step on windward rail which acts like a giant keel

a while ago I bought Fanatic Ray 130, it is 130 l, 73 cm wide. It is dubbed as "free race" and I was a bit afraid if my skill is enough...
turned out it is fantastic board. goes faster, much faster than anything else. jibes easily... because I go to the jibe with so much more speed when I flip I still have so much spedd...
I sail it with 7.0 Behaves really good in overpwering conditions, in chop (like I coulda be already on 6.0+100 liters). In short I was surprised and really happy... I guess I was underestimating my skills...

But with 8.5 it is a bit too small... when the wind dies... (when I am powered everything is hunkydorry). Tough to uphaul 8.5 in the chop when it just died for example.
So I just bought Fanatic Ray 145. It is 81 cm wide. The idea is to replace my Formula. My biggest sail is 8.5 and I hope it will work with Ray 145.
I off course loose early planning threshold, but extend my wind range when it blows. Formula is the early planner, but its wind range is so narrow - few more knots and it is getting really scary... (basically like any other board, it has a wind range, but it is very narrow)... when it really goes and flies from the smallest ramp, and lands, with a gunshot noise... or when it hits the bump... its like hitting the brake....

Of course my comments have nothing to do with WindSUP, and windsurfing in the ocean.
my wsrfng is all on the lake...
and I have no understanding of rocker, vee, thin rails....

DW

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2014, 04:48:17 AM »
Alap,

When I load my truck up with windsurf gear and 4WD 4 miles on the beach to hit our windsurf spot, there are no SUPs on the truck. Too much hassle making room for them. But there is always room for 2 paddles. Of the windsurf boards I have tried to SUP, all were pretty awful. Except the Magic Ride. It's at least decent fun.

Agree, its something I would do rarely though. I'm not surf starved, or wind starved, since I live at the beach in NC. A state famous for wind and waves.

I also would never own a sail bigger than 6.9. Nobody around here needs one bigger. We just never go that long without wind.

Bigger boards and sails are like big kites. Pouring big money down a hole for little reward. If I lived inland I'd feel different.


alap

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2014, 11:40:56 AM »
thats true, of course if you live in the area that requires a quiver of two or three sails thts great, and even better if the biggest you need is 6.9
its nice to live in the Gorge or on Maui, or in SF bay area.. or in NC...

but the original post was about light air sails, and light air boards, for the area that rarely sees wind, thats the reason I replied about Formula, 145 liters, 8.5 sail 9 (btw this 8.5 is Retro, practically all my sails are Retro, from 4.5 to 8.5)

Also agree that buying the equipment to cover outlier conditions is not the best investment, but we are not talking about investment here.

Yesterday I sailed 100 km winds. I forgot my 3.6 at home (junior Alzheimer?), and my smallest was 3.9 on 75 liters. Massively, massively overpowered. Multiple airs, in the lulls rode a dozen waves. not a single attempt to jibe (couldn't just sheet on the reach, oversheeting for the jibe would be simply impossible. just long (couple miles) reaches, dismount, wtrstrt, repeat...

Two hours of scary fun. Waves head high on the prairie lake. One friend was on 3.3 and another was on 3.1
Am I buying 3.3 or 3.1? may be... may be modern 3.5 to replace my old dacron 3.6 (my 3.9 is newer generation, few years, so I downhauled it really strong yesterday)
but with a clear understanding tat it will be used once in a few years... not the first item on my list...

Antonius

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Re: Fastest sailing WindSUP?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 08:24:08 PM »
Anything bigger out there?  I just checked the Magic Ride and Firemove and they both top out at around 130/140 liters.  I'd really like to find something around 170 liters.
JP also makes the Xcite Ride Plus at 160 liters. For 2014 those were redesigned to be a bit thinner and wider than previous generations but not quite to the same extreme as the Magic Ride. But if you need more than the 132 liters from the largest MagicRide it's worth looking at. One other option is the Super Lightwind. it's a bit wider still (think of it as a cross between an Xcite Ride and a Formula board) but I've paddled it and because of the parallel rails and flat rocker it paddles well. It won't be as much fun to paddle in surf though because the width continues further back than it does in the Xcite Ride and especially the MagicRide.

 


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