Downwinding specific paddle recommendation?

[Ake G]

Looks like I'll be joining the Downwinding Club sooner rather than later and am looking to buy a new paddle.

For surf , all my paddles are head high and I'm very comfortable with them. I can't imagine going 10"-12" over my head with a paddle....but I don't know what I'm doing on a DW or race board from a paddle technique standpoint so I'd like to start off with the correct gear so I don't get into bad habits or wreak havoc on my aging body.

What's the current thinking on overall paddle length?

And Could anyone recommend a specific paddle in great detail (blade sizes, shaft length and flex etc...)?

I'm 6'4" around 210 these days.

[stoneaxe]

You'll hear from the experts shortly no doubt but for me it's just what I use surfing only with a longer shaft. Maliko with xtufS, the new Konihi may replace that though based on how it felt last Sat.

[DavidJohn]

I'm also 6'4" and about 210.. I've been a fan of longer paddles in the past for DWing 10-12" over head.. but these days I'm down to 6-8" overhead.. It seems like you can have a paddle length that's comfee for upright cruising flat water paddling but once you dig deep and paddle hard it will feel cumbersome.. awkward.. and too long.. So I've found that I'm better off having the paddle comfee for paddling hard even if it feels a little short once standing upright and cruising along.. DWing for me is more about start/stop paddling as I drop off one runner.. recover.. and then paddle hard to catch the next runner so I've found that smaller blades work best for me.. Those who can keep a higher constant speed by linking one runner to the next or use Ace-like shape boards that can keep constantly moving more than a planing bottom board might be able to use bigger blades but I've found that smaller blades help me paddle using a higher cadence without pulling myself off-balance or overloading my joints.. I'm using a Kialoa Hulu Small.. It's a high aspect (long and narrow) blade and the total paddle length is between what I use for surfing and normal flat water paddling.. For the same reason I prefer a stiffer shaft.. Soft flexy shafts feel great when cruising along but when you dig deep and paddle hard some of the softer shafts just flex too much for me and stop me getting the power down to catch a runner.. I also lean on my paddle a lot for both bracing and to help with turning and some flexy shafts flex too much when doing that..  I'd also be interested to hear what others are doing.

[JF808]

I personally dont think there is a magic formula for what can be called a "downwind" paddle.  10-12" overhead might be a good place to start, you can always cut it shorter from that point. Now since your not used to that, your probably going to find it awkward.

a longer paddle does exert more stress on the body, this is where the narrow but longer blades come into play, various shaft stiffness, paddle technique. so much variables really...  In general blade size should be based on body type. Big Buff bradahs like Thomas Maximus, can get away with using large faced blades, while someone smaller in weight and not having as much physical strength would be better off with a smaller blade.

now days everyone is switching to smaller higher aspect blades, and shorter overall lengths

[Area 10]

I personally dont think there is a magic formula for what can be called a "downwind" paddle.  10-12" overhead might be a good place to start, you can always cut it shorter from that point. Now since your not used to that, your probably going to find it awkward.

a longer paddle does exert more stress on the body, this is where the narrow but longer blades come into play, various shaft stiffness, paddle technique. so much variables really...  In general blade size should be based on body type. Big Buff bradahs like Thomas Maximus, can get away with using large faced blades, while someone smaller in weight and not having as much physical strength would be better off with a smaller blade.

now days everyone is switching to smaller higher aspect blades, and shorter overall lengths

As you go shorter you can go for a bigger blade if you want. I'm over the small blade phase/ shorter shaft now and am going for a bit more area combined with shorter shafts. It depends what "gear" (using the cycling analogy) you want for your particular activity. Short shafts and small blades can lead to ridiculous cadences if you have a powerful motor. Danny Ching's cadence is surprisingly slow.

[coldsup]

Mine is about 5 inches over my surf height paddle which is head high. Too long and IMHO you can't do quick strokes which you need to do.  I use a small blade too.

[PonoBill]

My bias is to view cadence as something people differ about naturally--like hair color. I don't think size is the governing factor. I use a small or mid-sized blade and I'm big. Devin Blish uses a big Molokai, and she's tiny.

I think the way to get into a swell is to reach way out and do very short, quick, sharp pulls--it looks silly for a moose like me to do that, but I get a lot more swells that way. Then I see Devin doing long, hard pulls and getting everything she goes for.

So I think you need to figure out your cadence to pick the right blade. Are you the kind of guy that shifts his bike to low and pedals like crazy, or do you like high gears and pushing the pedals hard?

As far as length goes, I'm all over the map. Lately I've been paddling my 12'2" more, which is a thin, narrow board and the deck is nearly awash with me on it. A paddle that gets my arm parallel with the deck at full reach feels best with that board. Then I jump on my F16 and it's way too short. Not only because the board is thicker but because I reach further and don't bend my waist as much on that board. Whatever length paddle I choose it's likely to not be quite right. I should just stick to one board.

So--cadence, board choice and stroke all affect what paddle to choose. Simple huh.

[headmount]

I'm so confused

[Off-Shore]

For the same reason I prefer a stiffer shaft.. Soft flexy shafts feel great when cruising along but when you dig deep and paddle hard some of the softer shafts just flex too much for me and stop me getting the power down to catch a runner.. I also lean on my paddle a lot for both bracing and to help with turning and some flexy shafts flex too much when doing that..  I'd also be interested to hear what others are doing.

DJ, I recently posted on some other threads about my frustrating experiences downwinding with my tapered shaft QB Trifecta 95 on my SIC F16, and stumbled across this older thread. You put it well and I totally agree. The flexy flicky feeling of the tapered shaft works well in the flat, chop, racing and cruising, but not in my opinion for downwinding.

[Area 10]

I'm also 6'4" and about 210.. I've been a fan of longer paddles in the past for DWing 10-12" over head.. but these days I'm down to 6-8" overhead.. It seems like you can have a paddle length that's comfee for upright cruising flat water paddling but once you dig deep and paddle hard it will feel cumbersome.. awkward.. and too long.. So I've found that I'm better off having the paddle comfee for paddling hard even if it feels a little short once standing upright and cruising along.. DWing for me is more about start/stop paddling as I drop off one runner.. recover.. and then paddle hard to catch the next runner so I've found that smaller blades work best for me.. Those who can keep a higher constant speed by linking one runner to the next or use Ace-like shape boards that can keep constantly moving more than a planing bottom board might be able to use bigger blades but I've found that smaller blades help me paddle using a higher cadence without pulling myself off-balance or overloading my joints.. I'm using a Kialoa Hulu Small.. It's a high aspect (long and narrow) blade and the total paddle length is between what I use for surfing and normal flat water paddling.. For the same reason I prefer a stiffer shaft.. Soft flexy shafts feel great when cruising along but when you dig deep and paddle hard some of the softer shafts just flex too much for me and stop me getting the power down to catch a runner.. I also lean on my paddle a lot for both bracing and to help with turning and some flexy shafts flex too much when doing that..  I'd also be interested to hear what others are doing.

The Kialoa Hulu Small has a fairly stiff shaft but it flexes a lot at the blade. I wish Kialoa made a smaller version of the GL surf. That is a stiff as anything and the transmission of power is immediate. And it is great for bracing. It's just a little big for very stop-start stuff over a long period, but if you are feeling butch it will get you into just about any bump you like.

I find the Ke Nalu Maliko with 100 shaft a good balance for downwinding. I like my QB v-drive with tapered shaft too. But I know what you mean about the flex: It's swings and roundabouts: the flex of the tapered shaft doesn't give as immediate attack but it is less wearing. If you are using the "dab" technique to get onto your bumps (i.e. high cadence, short pull strokes started way out in front of you) then sometimes a flexy paddle seems to encourage a more sustained burst of higher cadence stokes because the "catch shock" is less. Note that most of the bend in a QB tapered shaft however comes between the top and bottom hands, with the beauty of the tapered shaft being that there is less bend beneath the lower hand. So less power is probably lost than with e.g. a more flexy non-tapered shaft. This is a clever feature - you may not be losing as much power to flex as you think, I reckon.

[Off-Shore]

Thanks Area 10. This is what I posted in the other thread (see below).

I hear what you mean that the Flexi shaft gives you a more sustained burst to catch glides. It is the transitions between waves in bigger conditions that frustrated me, where with a stiff shaft I can do what I call the one paddle plant "pole vault move".. just one big deep strong paddle plant, and whoosh... off you go again on the next wave... not possible with the Flexi shaft..

Here's a picture comparing the blades and the shafts of the Enduro vs the Trifecta... When I first saw how thin the shaft was at the handle end... I was like Woa.. no way is that going to work.. but I think that's what gives it the flexy flicky feeling at the end of the Power phase, but does not work so well in my downwinds..

Take more shorter strokes I hear you say, and this is correct.. but that is not always possible in downwind transitions from one glide to the next especially when the swell runs past you... there is often just time for one paddle plant, and if you get it set well, then you can literally pole vault into the wave that is coming behind it in one stroke... a most satisfying experience that for me is sadly difficult to repeat often!

Bottom Pic - Trifecta Shaft on TOP  and Enduro on the bottom