Another crappy paddle...

[PonoBill]

It's not really that simple. raf. If a paddle doesn't flutter at all then no one will think it does.

Paddles with deep dihedral or some other form of offset that directs the flow of water off the face will not have flutter. But they also won't catch hard. Expanding on what you're saying, if someone doesn't like a surfboard, it's their fault. A surfboard is a much bigger canvas, but the design choices are similar. The designer makes choices and the customer lives with them.

I don't think the old QB Kahana fluttered at all, for anyone, but it had a soft catch. You can make a Ke Nalu flutter if you grip the shaft tight, because the scooped tip and concave face is slowing the water movement off the dihedral. It self-corrects if you relax your grip, but hold it tight and it will buck.

[capobeachboy]

I've never had a flutter issue with any KeNalu paddles.  I can hook my thumb under the Ergo T handle and paddle open palm on top with a couple fingers on the shaft and the paddle tracks straight & true.  You don't need to have a death grip on these paddles like so many others and they're fantastic is you'd had problems with blistering, tendonitis or carpal tunnel.  The new Ho'oloa & Konihis are incredible - I've been using them on the xTuf shafts and it's silky smooth.

[raf]

If a paddle doesn't flutter at all then no one will think it does.

?  I don't know what that means.  Is that like if a tree falls in the woods thing?

You could put any paddle in the world in the hands of some people and they will flutter.  And then you could put any paddle in the hands of other people and they won't flutter at all. 

My point is not that paddle design doesn't matter.  It matters a lot.  But its also a highly subjective thing.  Saying something like "QBs suck because they flutter" is oversimplifying.  You need to find the right paddle for your stroke. 

[Easy Rider]

I have paddled a QB Slim Jim many, many times (and almost all other Quickblade paddles) - - with no "flutter" at all. 

Just saying.

But did you try in salt water?

I use the same grip obviously on all paddles, the failure is in the paddle that flutters it would seem to me.

Didn't flutter in Newport Harbor when I tested the prototype Slim Jim - with Jim many years ago. 
Neither did the prototype V-Drives that Dave designed when I paddled them in Tavarua with him a few years ago. 

So, Yes - I have paddled them in salt water.   

As others have stated - - flutter - generally comes for the first few strokes when you change from paddle design to another.

[Bean]

A scratch golfer who regularly plays with enlarged sweet spot clubs would likely fall flat on his face the first time out with traditional forged irons...just sayin'.

[Fog City Rider]

I'll be sticking with proven player with Werner. Still haven't tried the KeNalu. If it fluttered I would want to break it I'm half.

Can someone please set you up with a Ke Nalu to demo!?  It's practically a Zoner rite of passage at this point... would love to see where it lands on your chart. 

[Area 10]

We've been here before. Since some paddles flutter in some people's hands and not in others it seems likely that the issue is an interaction between the blade and the paddler. Furthermore, since flutter is common when someone first starts using a new paddle and then typically goes away, this reinforces the notion that the issue is more to do with the paddler than the blade. Usually.

So what is it about the OP that might be leading to this "flutter"? One thing we haven't explored is whether it is the OP's stature that might mean that flutter with certain blades is more pronounced: I'm assuming the web name of "sup_surf_giant" isn't ironic. Perhaps it is possible that someone who is unusually tall might be e.g. placing the blade into the water at the catch at a different angle than a shorter person, or that the shaft, being presumably much longer on a very tall person's paddle, may bend more, again leading to different hydrodynamic effects? Or maybe if you are very tall it is hard to really sink the blade because most paddles aren't long enough. I have no idea. But there may be many possibilities perhaps other than just e.g. lower hand grip.

[sup_surf_giant]

We've been here before. Since some paddles flutter in some people's hands and not in others it seems likely that the issue is an interaction between the blade and the paddler. Furthermore, since flutter is common when someone first starts using a new paddle and then typically goes away, this reinforces the notion that the issue is more to do with the paddler than the blade. Usually.

So what is it about the OP that might be leading to this "flutter"? One thing we haven't explored is whether it is the OP's stature that might mean that flutter with certain blades is more pronounced: I'm assuming the web name of "sup_surf_giant" isn't ironic. Perhaps it is possible that someone who is unusually tall might be e.g. placing the blade into the water at the catch at a different angle than a shorter person, or that the shaft, being presumably much longer on a very tall person's paddle, may bend more, again leading to different hydrodynamic effects? Or maybe if you are very tall it is hard to really sink the blade because most paddles aren't long enough. I have no idea. But there may be many possibilities perhaps other than just e.g. lower hand grip.

I guess those are all possibilities.

I am 6'6, and 225lbs of beef.

My surf paddles are 77" and 78". My race paddle is 88".

All are Nitro medium (100" blades) and all are silent and deadly.

Same with my adjustable paddles with big SUPAtx 110" blades. Silent, no flutter, just WEIGHT.

Whether long shaft or short, they act the same.

The Kialoa I bought was an absolute nightmare, fluttering from start to stop of power phase like someone was trying to take it from me. Good riddance!

The QB had more mild flutter mid-way through power phase then would quiet down.

All this talk of "grip" and "learning a paddle" to me is gobblety-gook that sounds as if too much marketing has been consumed. Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but good design is good design, right?

[sup_surf_giant]

I'll be sticking with proven player with Werner. Still haven't tried the KeNalu. If it fluttered I would want to break it I'm half.

Can someone please set you up with a Ke Nalu to demo!?  It's practically a Zoner rite of passage at this point... would love to see where it lands on your chart.

Haha, you are pretty right on that. Maybe I'm a soft rebel?

I've had about 3 people offer to sell one to me via this thread. Ke Nalu marketing is pretty bad. I can't just buy a paddle, I need; a blade, shaft, a handle, and there are zillions of offerings of each. Confusing enough, or demotivating enough that I didn't want to study any deeper. All for $100 + more than what I'm using.

[kayadogg]

Ke Nalu marketing is pretty bad. I can't just buy a paddle, I need; a blade, shaft, a handle, and there are zillions of offerings of each. Confusing enough, or demotivating enough that I didn't want to study any deeper. All for $100 + more than what I'm using.

I don't think it's bad.  I think if anything, word of mouth and the design speak for itself.  They are still a very young company especially when compared to a company like Werner.  I'm pretty sure you need a blade, a shaft and a handle for a Werner paddle, or any other paddle for that matter.  Ke Nalu's unique in that they offer variation in these components.  It's really not that difficult of a process if you spent about 5 minutes reading their site (or any of the Ke Nalu threads here).  And you can "just buy a paddle".  Lane has full paddles available as an option on his site (http://kenalu.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1).  A quick Google search shows the Nitro selling, on average, around $325-$350.  Not really that much cheaper than a Ke Nalu, especially given the modular construction of a Ke Nalu.  Take the Konihi blade for instance.  A very unique, possibly revolutionary design.... you don't need to "just buy a paddle" to get a Konihi, you just need to buy a blade.  If Werner comes out with a new design, don't you have to buy a full paddle?  Yes I like Ke Nalu's, I own 4 of them and use them for surf, racing and distance paddling.  I have used many others and have owned others while owning Ke Nalu paddles.  I like Werner paddles too, I think they are a proven company with proven designs.  I also like QuickBlade paddles. I just feel you are not being fair to Ke Nalu.  Threads on this site may make it seem like people are drinking the kool-aid but the more Ke Nalu's I see in the water, from people who haven't heard of the Zone, is starting to speak for itself. 

Could there be brand loyalty involved in your case?  Not in a bad way, just being honest.  I think a lot of people find a brand they like and will be loyal to them, sometimes beyond reason.  I know you are also an Infinity guy and I know that Dave & Steve only use Werner paddles.  If what you are used to, and what you know works, maybe it's easier to find fault in different brands?  This is not a criticism to your loyalty, just an observation that hasn't been brought up in this thread.

[sup_surf_giant]

Ke Nalu marketing is pretty bad. I can't just buy a paddle, I need; a blade, shaft, a handle, and there are zillions of offerings of each. Confusing enough, or demotivating enough that I didn't want to study any deeper. All for $100 + more than what I'm using.

I don't think it's bad.  I think if anything, word of mouth and the design speak for itself.  They are still a very young company especially when compared to a company like Werner.  I'm pretty sure you need a blade, a shaft and a handle for a Werner paddle, or any other paddle for that matter.  Ke Nalu's unique in that they offer variation in these components.  It's really not that difficult of a process if you spent about 5 minutes reading their site (or any of the Ke Nalu threads here).  And you can "just buy a paddle".  Lane has full paddles available as an option on his site (http://kenalu.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1).  A quick Google search shows the Nitro selling, on average, around $325-$350.  Not really that much cheaper than a Ke Nalu, especially given the modular construction of a Ke Nalu.  Take the Konihi blade for instance.  A very unique, possibly revolutionary design.... you don't need to "just buy a paddle" to get a Konihi, you just need to buy a blade.  If Werner comes out with a new design, don't you have to buy a full paddle?  Yes I like Ke Nalu's, I own 4 of them and use them for surf, racing and distance paddling.  I have used many others and have owned others while owning Ke Nalu paddles.  I like Werner paddles too, I think they are a proven company with proven designs.  I also like QuickBlade paddles. I just feel you are not being fair to Ke Nalu.  Threads on this site may make it seem like people are drinking the kool-aid but the more Ke Nalu's I see in the water, from people who haven't heard of the Zone, is starting to speak for itself. 

Could there be brand loyalty involved in your case?  Not in a bad way, just being honest.  I think a lot of people find a brand they like and will be loyal to them, sometimes beyond reason.  I know you are also an Infinity guy and I know that Dave & Steve only use Werner paddles.  If what you are used to, and what you know works, maybe it's easier to find fault in different brands?  This is not a criticism to your loyalty, just an observation that hasn't been brought up in this thread.

Possibly.

I've paid full retail for all my paddles save for the Craigslist finds.

All I know is, the Werners don't flutter and the others do.

I'm not a dumb guy, I've spent more than a few hours pouring over the KeNalu site...their layout and approach is simply done in a way that disengages me. Their site is old-school and the price of their equipment isn't reflective on the ease of their site.

PS I've not paid much more than $300 for my paddles.

I've bought two Werners new, I chose the longest one (then sized to fit) and the size of the blade. It made sense.

KeNalu has a way to go to fine tune their approach, IMO.

I've been willing to consider KeNalue a few times in 3 years, but every time, I pour over the site and I give up due to the miriad of options and flexiness, etc etc etc AND that it ends up being close to $500 if I'm assembling things correctly.

I'm not down on KeNalu, just sharing my experience.

[Fog City Rider]

I can jibe with a lot of what you're saying about Ke Nalu, especially as a dealer.  We sell Werners at our shop & it's our top paddle brand.   Depending on a customer's budget and their type of paddling, it's very easy for me to recommend the right paddle.  Cut it, glue it, and they're set.  No varying flexes, tapered shafts, funky blade designs... just excellent paddles. 

I've often considered becoming a Ke Nalu dealer too... but the choices seem like overkill for our customers, who tend to be budget-minded beginners rather than full-on enthusiasts.  It's still something I want to eventually offer though     

I paddle the Grand Prix & the Nitros all the time, and love those paddles.  The Grand Prix is light as a feather, and extremely powerful. 

But I also have a Ke Nalu Maliko w/ Xtuf(s) shaft.   It may not be as light as the Grand Prix, but it's my paddle of choice for surfing.  And distance cruising.  Very powerful, and less straining on the joints.  Definitely worth a try. 

[AJR]

But I also have a Ke Nalu Maliko w/ Xtuf(s) shaft.   It may not be as light as the Grand Prix, but it's my paddle of choice for surfing.  And distance cruising.  Very powerful, and less straining on the joints.  Definitely worth a try.

+1; I'll make it easy on you.  I'm 6'1" 230 lbs and love my Maliko with the Xtuf(s). No flutter at all. The only choice you need to make is to go with the elite or Xtuf blade. I have the Xtuf.

[Tecpartner]

Supalon:  95"? Really?  How many inches overhead is that?

[starman]

Werner makes a fine paddle but their policies regarding parts (the handle) are just plain stupid. I managed to shear off the plastic handle right at the shaft while surfing. I emailed Werner with pictures and a request to purchase a new handle. Sorry, but for liability reasons they would not sell me a handle. . The handle snapping at the joint is not a liability issue but selling me a replacement is?? They could replace the handle if I shipped them the paddle for about $70. I waited about a month for the local dealer to order the part for me. I'm pretty sure Werner are the only ones that have this policy. They must think they are the Apple of paddles.