Author Topic: Weird Konihi 95 Blade  (Read 21379 times)

SUP407

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 06:01:50 PM »
It's an awesome paddle. Incredibly smooth, if your stroke is correct. If not, you hear it. Get the blade under water and it's just dead calm.

gorgebob

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2014, 11:17:35 PM »
Yes , get the full blade into the water and it is quiet. Not sure, still like the Wiki better.
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kayadogg

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2014, 11:43:40 PM »
gorgebob, what is it that you are unsure of about the Konihi?  what is it about the Wiki that you like better?

deano72

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2014, 04:58:10 PM »
Hi All
Finally got onto the Zone and first post.

I'm the Australian distributor for Ke Nalu and I thought I'd share some of the feedback we are receiving on the Konihi blades.
Several of our team paddlers have had pre-production Konihi blades for testing since early this year.
These guys are some of Australia's top paddlers and two of them are current National Champs.
Here's a few quotes from the crew:

"The Konihi 84 is really different to my other Ke Nalu blades. Feels like it's not very powerful cause it's so easy on the body but in time trials I'm faster with it than my other blades"

 "So smooth and stable. Absolutely no flutter"

 "It really loads up through the stroke. The drive it provides is unreal"

 "It's so stealthy through the whole stroke, the catch and release is so clean"

 "It's so easy to keep your cadence up with this thing. Love it"

The Konihi takes a little getting used to and as Bill has mentioned, requires good technique.....but when you get your technique right it's absolutely awesome!
Compared to other Ke Nalu blades, it requires small adjustments to your stroke to get the best from it.
The higher aspect ratio of the Konihi does a couple of things.....the narrower width softens the catch and the deeper blade offers more drive through the stroke.
Both of these factors are a huge benefit for distance racing....for mere mortals (99.9% of us  :)).
The softened catch is fantastic as powerful catch at full extension is one of the major causes of fatigue and over time tears you apart.....anyone got shoulder injuries??
Having the blade offer power through the mid part of the stroke is the biggest bonus as this can be harnessed more easily through the use of upper body weight and torso rotation.
Plant it deep and maintain downward pressure with your top hand through the stroke and the drive is awesome.
It's definitely my go to blade for any paddling discipline on a race board....not sure how it would go in the surf for me as I like the powerful catch of the Wiki to quickly pull me into waves with a few quick taps.
Hopefully you guys find some of this helpful......happy paddling!

SUP-poser

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2014, 05:21:04 PM »
Quote
You're kind of missing the point, it's not so much about direction of travel as pressure differential. The way you are seeing things is looking a little too much at Newton's laws but forgetting about Bernoulli's principle (which basically explains how pressure differential causes lift). In fact the vortices that cause problems in aircraft wings ARE actually travelling perpendicular to the direction of flight (which is a pretty amazing feat in itself considering the speeds involved, but it just goes to show how much pressure differential there is...and of course has to be in order to generate lift).

Again the paddle may work great, but the winglet analogy is inaccurate. The direction of the flow around the paddle (or wing) is absolutely crucial to the nature of the vortices they generate. The large surfaces of wings, in normal flight, both have air or fluid of some sort moving roughly parallel to their surfaces from the leading to the trailing edge, not directly from the lower to the upper surface of the wing in the vector which air would move through the web of a tennis racket. A paddle is moving with it's large surfaces perpendicular to the flow of water with the fluid hitting the paddle's power face like it hits the leading edge of a wing, or the nose of an airplane. In normal flight the air separates at the leading edge of a wing and flows over the upper and lower surfaces to the trailing edge with a small component of the flow drawn outboard along the bottom surface laterally to the low-pressure (upper) surface around the wingtip where the vortex is generated (this is right there in your video—no vortices are forming along the leading and trailing edges of the wing, only at the wingtip). In the case of a paddle, the flow from the high to low pressure side of the blade flows around the entire edge of the blade's face to the trailing side of the paddle blade. If winglets installed on airplanes were anything like this paddle design, they would be formed along the entire length of the wing as they are on this paddle. They are not, and occupy only a small area at the wingtip where the vortices form. So, unless you're speaking of a VTOL like a Harrier which briefly climbs and descends vertically in a vertical takeoff and landing, with the airflow striking the large surfaces of the wing directly during this transitory phase of flight as they would a ping-pong paddle, the flow around a paddle bears little or no resemblance to the flow over a wing.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 05:24:16 PM by SUP-poser »
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jdmotes

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2014, 05:49:57 PM »
 Can we not refer to them as an edge-lip? Not sure what to call them but they sure seem to work! Don't know why; Just know...   Paddle on,     JD
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Luc Benac

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2014, 07:29:37 PM »
Whoa, do I need all that to paddle faster??? :-)
I hope the Konihi I ordered come with a detailed manual.
For the paddle not for the Harrier...

Cheers,
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PonoBill

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2014, 07:39:12 PM »
I don't think the term is improper in that a wing is an appendage  to a core structure, but the idea that they function like the wingtips of a modern jet is probably incorrect.

a couple of years ago I was trying to do two things. design a wing blade that would generate lift across the back of the blade (didn't work) and use "fences" (I called them wings again) to slow the movement of water off the blade. Mine were tipped forward. This also didn't work. I don't know what Lane's design is doing, but I've watched it move though the water a lot, so I have some guesses. the rearward tipped "wings" influence the position and the strength of the vortex--that much is clear.  the absence of a vortex at the shoulder of the blade where the first vortex usually attaches leads me to think the wings are guiding the vortex upwards. The second vortex usually forms near the neck of the blade, and if the neck is allowed to be above the surface a powerful and noisy vortex does form. If the blade is pushed further under the vortex is guided to the shaft, where it seems to dissipate. Some blades form vortexes at the tip of the blade. There are no Ke Nalu blades that do that, the forward cupping of the blade eliminates that.

It's tough to talk about the aerodynamics of a blade since they operate in stall. That's inherently an unstable flow condition. most of the design efforts are in managing how water moves off the blade and trying to either slow it or stabilize it.  I think it's a pretty grey area and most of what is known is empirically derived.
 
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUP-poser

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 02:18:30 PM »
Quote
It's tough to talk about the aerodynamics of a blade since they operate in stall. That's inherently an unstable flow condition.

I think this is right. Wings depend on "laminar" flow to generate lift:
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blackeye

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 07:03:26 PM »
a couple of years ago I was trying to ...snip... design a wing blade that would generate lift across the back of the blade (didn't work)

Bill, I recall you mentioning fences/wings, but not lift generation. Care to elaborate why it didn't work? My limited understanding is that a fully stalled "bluff" shape gives the most lift-induced-drag. A paddle blade is a good example of that, much like a square-rigger sailing dead down wind. ie that is the best way to use the power available.

I am starting to think the Konihi's winglets ensure that there is no chance of ANY laminar flow around the backside of the blade face, thus making the unstable stalling state that is inherent of any paddle kinda stable, or at least evenly unstable.

PonoBill

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 07:42:29 PM »
I was trying to generate lift on the back of the blade from the motion of the blade entering the water and then arcing downwards. Wing blades for Kayaks and surfski work from a similar but much more profound principle--the blade is slicing through the water, so it's easier to generate lift on the backside of the blade. I don't think my efforts ruled anything out other than you can't always test things at the extremes--I made the wing root much too fat I think.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JF808

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2014, 11:31:58 AM »

We had Travis Grant ride with us to the start of the World Cup of SUP, Pailolo crossing (maui to molokai) He was telling us about his custom 17' downwind SUP, and trifecta paddle...  I found it so interesting how Travis and most of these other top paddlers really dont care about the science behind the gear they use, but when you come into these forums, all of a sudden everyone becomes an engineer, and super sensitive to design and perormance. I suppose it's only fair to understand certain attributes of our gear that makes them work but...

"If it works right?!" - Travis Grant.














PonoBill

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2014, 12:05:45 PM »
They certainly care that it works--for the gear that matters. If there's an advantage available, they want it. Then again, if it doesn't matter and someone is willing to give them a few bucks to use it, why not? Remember all the top guys wearing holographic balance bracelets?
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

blackeye

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2014, 09:48:22 PM »
"If it works right?!"

Give an average driving enthusiast a F1 car and a Honda Civic and a used Fiero and have a race Vancouver to Whistler. Guarantee the Honda makes it to Whistler. Guarantee the F1 crashes before Lions Gate Bridge. Guarantee someone picks the Fiero. Which car works best? Which is higher performance? Have the drivers read up, Google, question how an F1 works - they might make it much further and not buy a Fiero.

Is the Konihi 95 (or insert any of the latest SU stuff here) the F1 or the Honda Civic or the Fiero? Ya gotta go on the internet to find out. Ya gotta ask questions and try to figure it out before you commit the cash. You have to try to understand it so you don't buy the holographic gyroscopes option.

PonoBill

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Re: Weird Konihi 95 Blade
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2014, 10:18:56 PM »
Actually, an average driving enthusiast couldn't get an F1 car started, never mind drive it. Hell, Nico couldn't get his Mercedes started at Singapore. Did that suck or what?

I don't know what to call the Konihi. A new idea that works well in some situations? It's not a civic, or a Fiero, that's certain. An average surf paddler probably won't like it. Any racer that times themselves with it would probably use it, but might not love it. Anyone that goes purely by feel would probably not like it. It's strange enough that reading about it, and even trying it is probably not enough. Most of the folks that are currently Konihi fans are people that tuned it up to make it work and timed their runs with it. They go a little faster than they usually do.

That's all it does.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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