Outrigger vs Standup Paddle

[noworrieshawaii]

Wondering if an outrigger is faster than a Standup... I suppose race results would be the easiest comparison..  Anyone got a link?

[shapeshifter]

i would say that the oc's seem to be faster though i was huffin' an uli at the time...

[noworrieshawaii]

Standup same race
Place   No.   Name   Div   Div   Time   Pace
1   153   DAVID KALAMA   1   Men Over 13'Stand-Up   1:06:55   7:03
2   99   SCOTT TRUDON   2   Men Over 13'Stand-Up   1:15:12   7:55
3   184   BUZZY KERBOX   3   Men Over 13'Stand-Up   1:17:42   8:11
4   78   MARK RAAPHORST   4   Men Over 13'Stand-Up   1:18:37   8:17
5   111   CAMPBELL FARRELL   5   Men Over 13'Stand-Up   1:19:03   8:20
Laydown Paddleboard same race
Place   No.   Name   Div   Div   Time   Pace
1   159   JAMIE MITCHELL   1   UNL M30-39   1:13:09   7:42
2   178   BRIAN ROCHELEAU   2   UNL M30-39   1:19:47   8:24
3   122   MICK DI BETTA   1   UNL M40-49   1:19:51   8:25
4   185   CHRIS OWENS   2   UNL M40-49   1:23:08   8:46
5   182   KEONI WATSON   3   UNL M30-39   1:23:27   8:47
Outrigger  different day so who knows what the wind speeds were... but the same course.
finis             NAME                #      MAKE      VESSEL DIVISION PLACE       TIME
  1  Mark Sanvold                    315     V-10        SS    Elite    1st      1:06:45
  2  Kai Bartlett                    123    Pegasus     OC-1   Elite    1st      1:07:36
  3  Manny Kulukulualani            1231    Vantage     OC-1   Elite    2nd      1:09:21
  4  Barry Franks                    163     Huki        SS    Elite    2nd      1:09:54
  5  Peter Konohia                   65    Hurricane    OC-1   Elite    3rd      1:10:08

So to me it looks like the Outrigger would be faster but not by much and of course would depend on the paddler... Hummmm... maybe another chapter to the Stuey Downwind Challenge... 

[Tom]

check this out
http://www.eteamz.com/SoCalOceanRacing/files/shoresSC2008.htm

This is from the 5 mile race at La Jolla shores Sat in dead flat no wind condition. The SSM is Mens surf ski, the OC1 & OC2 are on & two person out rigger canoes. Looks like we got beat.

 La Jolla Shores Invitational 2008                 
Nov 8th 2008             
      SHORT COURSE             
                  
Place    Canoe #    name    division    time    points    div place
1    605    Ryan Stock    ssm-19    0.32.14         1
2    318    jerry merayo    ssm-o    0.32.52         2
3    551    mark heutter    ssm-o    0.32.59         3
4    198    chris zimmer    ssm-mstr    0.32.66         
5    383    Gilbert Johnson    ssm-sm    0.34.41         
6    279    mark edgar    ssm-mstr    0.35.23         
7    587    ryan gates    ssm-o    0.35.54         
8    482    mike holmes    ssm-o    0.35.56         
9         did not get numbr         0.36.19         
10    422    William Lin    ssm-o    0.36.25         
11    555    gavin miller    ssm//oc1m    0.36.26         
12    577    ryan passen    ssm-16    0.36.32         1
13    242    Lexie Bohlman    ssw-16    3.36.37         1
14    516    Kevin Stock    ssm-16    0.36.37.4         2
15    181    simanimal    oc2w    0.36.57         1
16    581    jenn-dena    oc2w    0.37.01         2
17    197    rose hinchcliff    ssw-msttr    0.37.15         1
18    254    greg cornejo    ssm-19    0.37.21         2
19    381    Dan Johnson    ssm-gh    0.37.26         
20    205    cavanaugh frank    ssm-sc    0.37.4         
21    584    cheryl/junnett anderson/mccarty    oc2w    0.37.58         3
22    14    dan avina    ssm-sm    0.38.09         
23    431    dana adler    ssm//oc1m-sm    0.38.18         
24    21    gil perez    oc1m-o    0.38.21         1
25    533    jim wilkens    ssm-o    0.38.47         
26    243    katarina lajeunesse    ssw-sc    0.38.57         2
27    306    paul cleary    ul-o    0.39.08         1
28    173    les hopper    ssm//oc2m    0.39.24         
29    585    michael lowe    ssm-16    0.39.38         
30    460    teri //jerry franklin    oc2mx    0.39.43         
31    44    jill schooler    oc1w-o    0.39.45         1
32    50    john// burke    oc2    0.39.52         
33    543    schwatrz/ ruce    oc2m-19    0.39.58         
34    27    thomas shahinian    SUP ul//oc1m-mstr    0.40.20         1
35    210    eric abbott    UL/ ssm-o    0.40.31         2
36    260    Charles Chang    oc1m-o    0.41.07         2
37    241    sydney bohlman    ssw-16    0.41.13         3
38    119    terry mcbride    ssm-mstr    0.41.31         
39    494    mindy//vered    oc2w    0.41.34         
40    541    cory fults    oc1m-16    0.41.37         1
41    496    Cody Silvester    oc1m-16    0.41.40         2
42    296    Marc Eagleton    oc1m-o    0.42.07         3
43    0    completed only one lap         0.42.19         
44    544    cory anastasio    ssw-19    0.42.22         1
45    426    jeff kiesel    oc1m-sm    0.42.27         
46    542    vonesh//yule    oc2m-19    0.42.35         
47    437    Garrett McCarty    ssm-19    0.42.38         3
48    253    John Becker    SUP-ul    0.42.46         2
49    276    carmen cutter    oc2w    0.42.48         
50    627    scott wu    oc1m-o    0.43.20         
51    187    michael bledsoe    ul-o    0.43.23         3
52    400    steve levon    oc1m-mstr    0.43.33         
53    531    susie// noa hopper    dbl-ss    2.43.42         *
54    604    ernie johnson    SUP-stock    0.43.44         1
55    236    keli stevens    oc1w-sc    0.43.53         2
56    556    jensen hassett    14'    0.44.03         1
57    430    suzy// jill    oc2w    0.44.09         
58    120    kathy carter    oc2w    0.44.37         
59    84    eric starnes    SUP-ul/oc1m-mstr    0.44.49         3
60    465    ZEN RUMBAOA    oc2w    0.45.08         
61    440    Kevin McWhirter    oc1m    0.45.18         
62    549    greg ford    14'    0.45.32         2
63    283    Garen Doyle    ssm-19    0.45.38         
64    340    Karen Jenkins    ssw-o    0.45.45.         2
65    595    richard hess    oc1m-o    0.45.49         
66    21    gil perez    oc1m-o    0.45.52         
67    427    leslie bruce    ssw-sc\    0.45.55         3
68    280    Dallas Deegan    oc1m-o    0.45.56         
69    22    dan van dyck    stock-mastr    0.45.59         1
70    545    adam crawford    UL--mstr    0.46.14         1mstr
71    588    emily chi    oc1w-o    0.46.17         3
72    538    maddie dierkes    oc1-w    0.46.24         
73    490    Richard Schroeder    SUP-stock    0.46.31         2
74    444    cora//krista    oc2w-16    0.46.49         1
75    240    Judith Moore    oc1w-sc    0.46.56         
76    292    george bishop    oc1m-o    0.47.35         
77    553    sean blumenkrantz    oc1m-19    0.48.07         1
78    522    opal theodossi    ssw-19    0.48.12         2
79    589    brian fernandez    SUP-stock    0.48.17         3
80    527    jessie bergman    ssm-19    0.48.46         
81    459    Steve Reidy    oc1m-mstr    0.48.56         
82    25    keith keillor    ssm-sm    0.49.01         
83    485    Scott Sanchez    SUP-stock    0.49.11         
84    252    morgan feori    ssw-o    0.49.25         3
85    332    Jessica Jenkins    ssw-16    0.49.41         
86    578    karen jewel    oc1w-o    0.49.55         
87    286    Todd Drake    sup-ul    0.50.16         
88    122    ross flemer//junette    SUP/oc2mx    0.50.21         
89    281    Michael DiDomenico    SUP-ul    0.50.36         
90    540    kyle fults    SUP-    0.51.15         
91    292    george bishop    oc1m-o    0.51.24         
92    76    vicki mills    SUPw//oc1w-o    0.51.32         1 supw
93    388    wes stone    ul-mstr    0.51.36         
94    590    edward anderson    SUP-stock    0.51.58         
95    547    kylee merrill    oc1w-19    0.52.32         1
96    626    joe wilkenson    SUP-ul    0.52.54         
97    526    scott safechuck    SUP-    0.53.13         
98    435    Daniel McCarter    SUP-ul    0.53.31         
99    530    trey foshee    stock-o    0.53.36         
100    304    Ronny German    14'    0.53.40         3
101    250    Pete Barabas Robson    SUP-ul    0.53.40.1         
102    373    kyle daniels    0:00:00    0.53.42         
103    630    michel jean-phillipe    SUP-ul    0.53.57         
104    532    rick stinson    SUP    0.54.06         
105    297    Bob feinberg    stock-sm    0.54.37         
106    535    cindy lawson    SUP-w    0.55.44         
107    592    peter bagoye    ul-o    0.55.44         
108    317    Tom Hadfield    SUP-stock    0.55.51         
109    450    Dialy Ndiaye         0.55.55         
110    548    emmy merrill    SUPw-19    0.57.38         
111    251    Tom Becker    SUP-stock    0.58.04         
112    412    Ryan Levinson    SUP-ul    0.58..04.1         
113    552    amanda harris    SUP-w    0.58.16         
114    591    ben blank    SUP-ul    0.58.47         
115    613    charlie ninegar    ul-o    0.59.24         
116    386    Debra Keys-Thomas         0.59.24.1         
117    355    glenn kovan    stock-mastr    0.59.58         
118    162    nicole levinson    pb-w    1.00.13         1
119    586    mario rubio    kayak    1.00.18         1
120    529    nicole photoglou    SUP-w    1.06.14         2
121    596    amy wynne    SUP-w    1.06.15         3
122    574    suzy greenwood    SUP-w    1.06.35         
123    583    shirley koerner    SUP-w    1.07.45         
124    537    aidan mccarter    SUPm-19    1.08.55         
125    166    Heather Schafer    PB-w    1.10.12         2
126    261    Rick Chang    SUP-stock    1.15.21         

[Paddle-Plappe]

Does anyone know about a SUB downwinder fitted with a float like an OC1?
I'm working on a prototype for april 2009 (nothing commercial)...

[val]

The wind is a major factor...  upwind the lay-down paddler or OC-1 outrigger will smoke a standup. downwind the standup wins because the body catches wind like a sail, and the SUP may even have a small advantage in being able to read and surf bumps.  the only way to really tell is to have a race in no-wind, no-wave conditions -- but i'd bet the OC-1 or laydowns may be slightly faster.   

[Kaweeka]

Molokai to Oahu results show a big difference but like everyone has said each day is different.  Fastest surfski for the 32 mile course (Kaluakoi to Koko Marina) is a little over 3:20, OC-1 is just under 3:50, and the best SUP time so far is ??  But this past year it was over 6 for solo and a little under 5 for the team.  Then again this also not the whole story as the times are dropping fast and the equipment improving - plus SUP is so much more fun 

So who will be the first under 5 hours?  There ought to be some sort of a prize for pulling it off!

[Shawn Michael]

Well if you figure you could stand up and balance a board that was 21'6 foot long and 14 inches wide in a windless situation it would be an interesting race IN FLAT water...the surf is the great equalizer...I think someone who is great at reading the sea and connecting the bumps could win on any of the four crafts as Dave K proved above.  On the flats it is surfski, then OC, and IMO the lay down and SUP are really neck and neck for now...SUP is still in a storm of evolution.  The achilles heal of SUP is the upwind.  Surfskis are freaking FAST in the flats

[stuey c]

   Definetly very interesting and like all seem to agree it really depends on the conditions. Upwind and the wise Sup paddler is hangin' out chuggin' a few beers at home! A couple observations so far though, on the 2nd of his 2 practise runs on the 18'8" before the Gold Coast race, Danny Sheard with an 8-10 knot tailwind overtook and stayed ahead of a 6-man outrigger being paddled by a top womens team (though they were paddling 5 up) then during the race, in the flats before the finish with little wind he just overtook one of the mid placed OC1s. It seems in ideal conditions with a healthy following breeze and some good runs a strong and skilled Sup paddler may just have it over an OC1 it'd be real close though, hard to beat something 21' long and 14" wide!..........I think the Sup definetly wins on fun points though.

[Paddle-Plappe]

I think someone who is great at reading the sea and connecting the bumps could win on any of the four crafts as Dave K proved above. 

The world surf-skier champ Chalupsky is so great at reading the sea and connecting the bumps. I think there never will be  a sup faster than Chalupsky in the surf.

The wind is a major factor...  upwind the lay-down paddler or OC-1 outrigger will smoke a standup. downwind the standup wins because the body catches wind like a sail, and the SUP may even have a small advantage in being able to read and surf bumps. 

Downwind, an oc-1 catches more wind than a surf-ski. Surf-ski is still faster downwind. Upwind, oc-1 also catches wind, maybe more than a SUP, it s so hard to paddle.

A sup with a float wouldn't be worth upwind, neither downwind but on flat water without wind...

 

[noworrieshawaii]

Interesting stuff... One of my main motivations for asking was I was wondering if I ever went paddling with my one man buddies if I would even have a chance of staying with them... Sounds like downwind or glassy I'd at least be able to keep them in sight. Some days thats all I need.

[greatdane]

We have weekly races here on a local lake.  Every Wed. night every conceivable craft shows up for a one lap race.  The fastest guys are always surf skiers (and they love to point this out at any chance), then the OC2's, then the OC1's.  Then comes the sit-inside kayaks & me on my Vortice.  I'm pretty fit and would destroy all these folks on a bicycle, but paddling my ass-off there is no way I can keep up with the skis and OC's.  The fastest ski finishes in about 28 minutes and I am about 6 minutes behind.

I think pure physics prevails on flat water few SUP's are going to hang with a 21' X 14" craft.  All bets are off in a down winder though...

[LaPerouseBay]

^ My limited experience with oc-1's on a downwinder leads me to believe that a canoe will have an edge, given that both paddlers are of average ability.  I've been passed and they made it look easy. 

On a side note; they all snubbed me and didn't offer so much as a nod, which led me to believe they were of average ability - if that.  One would assume that an experienced canoe racer would give a smile and a nod to a bum like me.   

[Kaweeka]

LP Bay - I see a new t-shirt. 

On the front an ama and two iako's scattered on the grass; one the back would be "Lose the training wheels - paddle a SUP!" 

It will only be made it XXL since the OC folks can get a bit touchy 

[Shawn Michael]

BUT what to make of David K's time?  How do you contend with him besting the Kai (who is #2 OC-1)  I think given that, given that he beat Jamie you have to put him somewhere it the pack with the Skis and OC-1 in the right conditions, connecting and surfing the swells...while OC-1 and SS time are edging up a bit by the years I think we will see an even faster evolution of unlimited SUP...I believe I can put out more power standing up than I can sitting in my OC-1 so I think taking the OC-1 is not out of the question in the right conditions on some freaky 19-20 by 26 board....

Double blade is and always will be faster and more efficient but I hate em!