Author Topic: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!  (Read 14460 times)

supthecreek

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Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« on: December 16, 2013, 04:31:52 AM »
I just read one too many forum threads on how to fix a stripped fin screw.
FIX the problem.... you HAVE a problem.....  you know that, right?

Or.... do you do it on purpose, so all of us suckers, will keep buying new fins at $120 a set ????

It STUPID!!!!!

I have to check my screw set EVERY session....
I carry a Fin screw tool in the sleeve of my wetsuit...

FIX it !
              Please :-*

Sooner or later Pono is going to design a NEW fin system.... then your all toast  ;)

Chilly

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 05:57:06 AM »
Great post Creek!!!!
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TN_SUP

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Re: Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 06:17:55 AM »
The FCS single race fins are a PITA too, the Allen bolt stripped immediately when I installed it the first time, as the bolt got cross threaded and stuck in the receiving piece. Took about 10 hours spread over a month to remove it w/o damaging my board. Soft Chinese steel.
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Tom

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 07:34:48 AM »
One way to remove a stripped grub screw is to put a dab of super glue on the key.

Also, only us the cheapo key that comes with the fins, they are made to fail before the scrwe gets stripped.

supuk

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 07:37:00 AM »
One of the problems it seams is that the china boards come with very short screws so by the time it hits the fin your running on just a few threads. Change to the longer grub screws and your good to go, I know futures will supply these not sure about fcs. Alternatively go fcs2 and never strip a screw again.

ctuna

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 08:17:30 PM »
That futures  key is pretty crappy doesn't seem like its made
of a very hard material and is seems loose .  Also the amount of torque
from box to box goes from seems medium to  very hard in some boxes.
Best to have a supply of set screws and consider them disposable after
a few cycles of removing the fins I think.

Larry Allison

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 01:47:36 PM »
I just read one too many forum threads on how to fix a stripped fin screw.
FIX the problem.... you HAVE a problem.....  you know that, right?

Or.... do you do it on purpose, so all of us suckers, will keep buying new fins at $120 a set ????

It STUPID!!!!!

I have to check my screw set EVERY session....
I carry a Fin screw tool in the sleeve of my wetsuit...

FIX it !
             Please :-*

Sooner or later Pono is going to design a NEW fin system.... then your all toast  ;)

Good Thread creek, The major problem to both these companies is the makeup of their units. Future use to have a threaded insert like the picks here, but then they broke inside the box and kept spinning. FCS has a poor locking load laterally which can't hold the fin tight long because screws start to loosen from side to side torque as you surf. The other major problem with these systems is their composite make up. Light but rubber feel which is why they have poor mechanical bond in epoxy or polyester and is why they fail under your glass jobs. Fcs was to brittle and cracked which is why their plugs also went to a rubber type material and now they have bonding issues.

ProBox has a strong material with good bonding properties but the other 2 companies pushed the weight issues which was grams difference. This is why the other companies said ProBox was over built for the surf market. Now the other systems are under built for the Standup Market compared to ProBox.

ProBox Finsystems mechanics are different than the others. The fin goes into a tapered Patented Insert which compresses into the board with the screw pushing on "V" curves in the side of the fin that I came up with as the pic shows. This compression fit of ProBox relaxes the screws form backing out while surfing, which generates and holds the power of your fin for forward projection like a Glass-on Fin.

Hope this helps you guys in simple term understand what is causing the problems you are having and see the trade off the other companies have with their boxes and why they are stuck.      
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 01:52:38 PM by ProBox-Larry »
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supthecreek

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 02:27:58 PM »
Thanks for your input Larry.... that says it all... the answer is there for the SUP companies... they just keep installing sub-par equipment, because we accept it. Sheesh :P

What I was hoping to do, when I started this thread was to stir the pot.... I expected a much stronger reaction. I expected people to be mad as hell...
All I got was people telling me how to fix each problem... I already KNOW how to fix them.... I just don't think I should HAVE to....at the current price of SUP's..... I think my $120 fins should stay in the box.

Maybe if the Zone community had raised a ruckus... the major SUP company's would start to see the need to switch to a different product, such as the ProBox system.... a system that is built to handle SUS needs.

anybody with me????? ... anybody?... where's Bluto when I need him?
Bluto's Big Speech - Animal House (9/10) Movie CLIP (1978) HD

Larry Allison

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2014, 03:06:20 PM »
Thanks for your input Larry.... that says it all... the answer is there for the SUP companies... they just keep installing sub-par equipment, because we accept it. Sheesh :P



Maybe if the Zone community had raised a ruckus... the major SUP company's would start to see the need to switch to a different product, such as the ProBox system.... a system that is built to handle SUS needs.

anybody with me????? ... anybody?... where's Bluto when I need him?
Bluto's Big Speech - Animal House (9/10) Movie CLIP (1978) HD

I am with you and Infinity Sup is with you along with Indigo Boards out of Florida along with 6 others that I can not mention yet because of surprise, requested by them. So yes my friend don't waste your hard earn dollars. BUY PROBOX FINSYSTEMS!!

The last 10 years people would pay up to and over $100.00 to replace these systems (Future/FCS) when they would fail on a new board, which was more than the profit the glass shop got and paid a worker min.wage to install.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 03:15:26 PM by ProBox-Larry »
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 04:51:25 PM »
I use ProBox only. Another factor in the ProBox setscrew being more robust, is the screw is longer. More engagement in the plastic.

Larry is coy about the material his box is made from. Too me, his boxes look and feel like glass filled plastic. If you don't know what that is, in plastics molding, it is usually just pure plastic (nylon, delrin, dynel, polycarbonate, etc.) in molded parts. But when you need strong plastics, they can add glass fill content to the plastic. Making the parts very tough and strong. Futures, and FCS and Bahne boxes feel like plain plastic. Cheap, breakable plastic.

Chinook boxes are glass filled plastic. They are bomb proof windsurf boxes.

You'll know it when you're sanding a plastic part with glass fill content. It's a bitch to sand without the right tool. Chinook and ProBox sand like a bitch, if you don't use a hard pad. You can hand sand a cheap plastic FCS or Futures box.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 04:54:03 PM by DW »

gorgebob

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2014, 05:36:38 PM »
I have seen many FCS and Future box nockoffs in production boards. Cheaper plastics and screws. The most common problem I have seen with a striped screw is the allen key is worn and rounds out the soft stainless steel. 
Founder: Gorge Performance Surf  Shop Portland
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Larry Allison

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2014, 06:26:36 PM »
Thanks for your input Larry.... that says it all... the answer is there for the SUP companies... they just keep installing sub-par equipment, because we accept it. Sheesh :P

What I was hoping to do, when I started this thread was to stir the pot.... I expected a much stronger reaction. I expected people to be mad as hell...
All I got was people telling me how to fix each problem... I already KNOW how to fix them.... I just don't think I should HAVE to....at the current price of SUP's..... I think my $120 fins should stay in the box.

Maybe if the Zone community had raised a ruckus... the major SUP company's would start to see the need to switch to a different product, such as the ProBox system.... a system that is built to handle SUS needs.

anybody with me????? ... anybody?... where's Bluto when I need him?
Bluto's Big Speech - Animal House (9/10) Movie CLIP (1978) HD

Creek, thought I would share something with you guys since you are open minded and tried of the crap systems. Future and FCS both were starving to change but companies have to be careful not to op themselves out. Here's a copy of a patent started in 2005 by some of the Futue Fin party, 3 years after ProBox came to market https://www.google.com/patents/US20070202760?dq=US20070202760&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NBLKUpz-BcHxoAS-lYDABw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA
Notice one of the names Vince Longo is the created of Future Fins.
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getsupngo

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2014, 08:10:17 PM »
I ended up putting a Chinook box in my old longboard after I somehow broke the cheapo plastic box before I even installed it. I discovered it had cracked along the bottom somehow, maybe I dropped it or something? This was way before the SUP craze so I made sure I used Chinook boxes from then on and especially on the SUPs. Glad I had plenty around since I also build the windsurfers. Also glad to hear the Proboxes are made with quality ingredients like the Chinook boxes.

   

supthecreek

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2014, 08:15:00 PM »
Thanks Larry... interesting.
I have never seen your system in person, but the feedback is ALWAYS great.  I like the dedication you have maintained, trying to create a bullet proof, useful system....

Your willingness to help so many Zoners though their fin box issues, is much appreciated... I have learned much by following those threads. We all benefit from your input.

Regarding the patent:

It is apparent that they wanted to accommodate  a variety of fin types and add cant control.... but I didn't see where they attempted make it any stronger or improved the screw setup.... but then I speed read it, so....

Maybe they are relying on the Angels they referenced so many times in their patent application  ;D
Maybe that was their angle.

Nothing will happen till the CUSTOMERS demand it.

Today... my fins were humming when I got into a fast section.... reminded me of 30 years ago... somethings out of whack... I better go fix it :-\

gorgebob... the tool is the one thing I don't have a problem with.... I would rather the tool round off, than the screw strip.... which I have to believe, is the intent.

I popped a fin through the side of a box on a 1 week old board this summer in 2' waves.... just by turning hard. A young American SUP company.... hopefully they will improve the fin box issue.

Larry Allison

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Re: Ok FCS ---- and Futures ----- ENOUGH already.... FIX it!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2014, 08:22:28 PM »
Thanks Larry... interesting.
I have never seen your system in person, but the feedback is ALWAYS great.  I like the dedication you have maintained, trying to create a bullet proof, useful system....

Your willingness to help so many Zoners though their fin box issues, is much appreciated... I have learned much by following those threads. We all benefit from your input.

Regarding the patent:

It is apparent that they wanted to accommodate  a variety of fin types and add cant control.... but I didn't see where they attempted make it any stronger or improved the screw setup.... but then I speed read it, so....

Maybe they are relying on the Angels they referenced so many times in their patent application  ;D
Maybe that was their angle.

Nothing will happen till the CUSTOMERS demand it.

Today... my fins were humming when I got into a fast section.... reminded me of 30 years ago... somethings out of whack... I better go fix it :-\

gorgebob... the tool is the one thing I don't have a problem with.... I would rather the tool round off, than the screw strip.... which I have to believe, is the intent.

I popped a fin through the side of a box on a 1 week old board this summer in 2' waves.... just by turning hard. A young American SUP company.... hopefully they will improve the fin box issue.

Creek, That finsystem failed when you added the FCS fin. because of the long foot print of Future to a adapter of a small foot print of FCS.

Glad the info helps you guys, because the more you guys know it makes my job easier from the Glorilla Marketing Companies which are clueless, but specialize in good Koolaid!.
Allison Race Fins

 


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