Author Topic: sealing eps- which stuff?  (Read 15620 times)

55NSup

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sealing eps- which stuff?
« on: October 11, 2013, 12:53:41 PM »
Hi, need to seal my 1lb eps before lamination. I looked at some standard light filler at the big builders supply store, the kind   for drywall and it seemed really heavy. So went to a real paint store and found an expensive super light version. It smells like its latext based.

What kind are you people using? Is it cement based or what?

I guess I have to stop and do some test parts before sealing the whole blank.

Any advice welcome

supsurf-tw

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 01:44:13 PM »
DAP Fast n Final and mix with distilled water
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 02:19:29 PM »
Some guys are switching to Sherwin Williams non shrink. I tried it on my last board.

I'll never go back to Fast-N-Final.

55NSup

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 03:23:52 PM »
Just spent an hour reading swaylocks about the debate on FnF and epoxy/ micro ballons.....
and trying to find a product similar to fast and final in Sweden.
This is the problem. If  I lived in the USA id go down to home depot and buy FnF.
But im in this wierd country that doesnt sell it.
As far as I can tell FnF is a latex based filler with high glass content. I cannot get info on wtf the materials are in the fillers available here. Nearest I get is " samploymer and light weight filler". (Good thing . Am fluent in Swedish).
There are various spackles that are " roll on" and others that intended to be applied with a blade. These are used for filling drywall seams.

Perhaps the Sherwin Williams no- shrink is a roll on?  products here mention that.

So. I guess I will have to test it out. I dont dare go for it and risk wasting 400 Euros of materials .

TallDude

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 04:39:28 PM »
There are a number of types of spackle on the market (your product selection may be less), but you want a very light weight spackle. The plastic container should feel like it's empty. It's that light. I've only used the DAP 'Fast and Final. After I spread the spackle with my hand and let dry, I lightly sand the spackle down. Then I roll on a thin coat of epoxy w/ added micro balloons (optional) to totally seal the blank. Hobie does their boards this way. I think you really need to do it with 1# foam, because of the bigger gaps.  A few glassers I know skip the spackle. They will just put on a layer of 1oz or 2oz glass, then sand it almost completely off, in lieu of spackling. 
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 05:24:02 PM »
The spackles we all use are not a roll on type. It is super light weight. When you add distilled water, its a lot like whipped cream. Spread with a squeegee. There is no glass content.

Lots of different spackles are being used with success. Fast N Final may go away soon as the preferred choice, since they started selling it in gray.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 05:26:59 PM by DW »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 05:29:45 PM »
After I spread the spackle with my hand and let dry, I lightly sand the spackle down. Then I roll on a thin coat of epoxy w/ added micro balloons (optional) to totally seal the blank. Hobie does their boards this way.

Wow, never knew anybody did that. What's the reason for doing it both ways? Always learning new tricks  ;D
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 05:32:12 PM by DW »

bajasurf

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 06:05:32 PM »
My buddy who builds boards professionally in Santa Cruz told me he skips the sealing steps in EPS... I have done it both ways, Fast n Final and Epoxy/Micro balloons.  Last board I skipped the seal, and I didnt notice any difference in weight..  I am sure I used a small amount of extra resin, but it was negligible...

On the other hand, I always use pigment and colors in my lam, if I was showing foam, I probably would seal...

I am never sealing a eps board again...But hey, thats just me.  A backyard hack that rides his own sticks.

Most of the pros seal the epoxy boards.  Fast n Final was easy, and only took half and hour or so.


Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »
I tried one unsealed board. Seemed like the hot coat was more work. More pin air. Some difference in people's experience is likely blank differences.

55NSup

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 02:21:30 AM »
I think I may have the right stuff. It's very light. But out of bucket it is very stiff, but loosens up when worked. I mixed in a little water to mayo consistency and in goes down so even and thin I won't have to sand off hardy any at all. Is this what FnF looks like? 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 04:43:16 AM »
That's the right stuff. Don't forget to use distilled water to reduce yellowing.

55NSup

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 07:17:25 AM »
Perfect!  everythingWill be under cf and im planning on using a red pigment micro ballon epoxy final sanding coat, so i'll never see the yellowing.
Have go visiting tonight  :-[  do it tomorrow.

supuk

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 05:16:09 AM »
looks good to me. Don't forget give it a good 12-24 hours to fully dry before  a light sanding and putting any resin on it. you are only trying to fill the voids around the beads of foam but im sure you you have probably read this if you have been reading up on swaylocks

byrondesign

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 08:18:10 AM »
I've built a few epoxy surfboards, wave skis, surf kayaks, and SUPs over the years. In the beginning I used Fast-N-Final to seal, but I soon found that the latex based drywall filler would hold and spread water if any dings or cracks occurred leading to major de-lam issues. I stopped sealing all together and did straight epoxy lams on bare EPS. From '03 to '07 I never pre-sealed any SUPs, they came out a bit heavier but never de-lammed. When i went to work for King's in '09 Dave Daum was using Fast-N-Final to seal the blanks to keep weight down, but there were too many de-lam issues so we switched to epoxy/micro balloon sealing. This is still the only way I will seal an EPS blank.

Yes you can use a Fast-N-Final type of latex sealer, the board will be a bit lighter in weight, but if any moisture gets under the glass, it will de-lam easily. Epoxy/micro ballooned boards will come out lighter than than non-sealed EPS boards but they de-lam much less.

Good luck!

Byron

Dwight (DW)

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Re: sealing eps- which stuff?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 09:01:49 AM »
I've built a few epoxy surfboards, wave skis, surf kayaks, and SUPs over the years. In the beginning I used Fast-N-Final to seal, but I soon found that the latex based drywall filler would hold and spread water if any dings or cracks occurred leading to major de-lam issues. I stopped sealing all together and did straight epoxy lams on bare EPS. From '03 to '07 I never pre-sealed any SUPs, they came out a bit heavier but never de-lammed. When i went to work for King's in '09 Dave Daum was using Fast-N-Final to seal the blanks to keep weight down, but there were too many de-lam issues so we switched to epoxy/micro balloon sealing. This is still the only way I will seal an EPS blank.

Yes you can use a Fast-N-Final type of latex sealer, the board will be a bit lighter in weight, but if any moisture gets under the glass, it will de-lam easily. Epoxy/micro ballooned boards will come out lighter than than non-sealed EPS boards but they de-lam much less.

Good luck!

Byron

Thanks for the advice. Nice to hear some real world tips from a long time user of EPS.

 


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