Is whether or not you support ACA, worth the current government shutdown?

[headmount]

The other current thread about whether or not one supports ACA is on its fifth page and it's obvious how people feel about ACA.  That thread has run about as contentious as the gun control threads with some posters on both sides of the issue,  putting up big  block caps murals, talking point simplifications that don't really dig into the issue. 

These don't light me up and if we want to get that kind of info, it's easy to go to any mainstream media.   It's also burdensome to read from any poster words that lay into others.  One sees this in sports blogs and it isn't interesting.  Using the word YOU in direct reference to another on the zone is provocative and usually evokes another emotional response in return. 

The exception is when someone says that a previous post had a point but maybe they didn't feel their analogy was pertinent.  Kudos to Lucabrasi for doing this.   It's also enlightening when contributors show how something affects them personally and the insight we get from their particular profession or experience.  There was a bit of that in the ACA thread and it was enlightening.  I love it when someone writes something and goes to bat and backs it up.

There are also others that seem intent on stifling expression or go to the emotional.  I can't control what people post but if we can't as a population in the US (or on the forum) learn to have a culture where we listen and are open to opposing opinions then we're no better than these middle eastern countries we deplore,  where the only way to solve a problem is to eliminate the other guy.

Which gets me to the subject of this post, where our government is so polarized that it has shot itself in the foot.  The TP says the Senate and Executive isn't willing to compromise and the Senate and Executive say that all the compromising has already been done to make ACA a law.   My opinion is that this shutdown sets a dangerous precedent for any momentum in the future, on either side, to make a law and implement it.  It's difficult enough as is to pass a law but to have  'defunding' on the table, after the fact, will make lawmaking impossible.  So if one thought we were a perfect country that didn't need any improvement, no more new laws might sound fine, otherwise we're not gliding.

[Weasels wake]

For me it's totally worth it, waiting for the trump card to be played if it comes down to it, if that's all that's left.
The ping pong game will go on for at least another week I hope, the longer the better. The House will keep carving away at their own demands (that's called compromising), and they will be met with a stone wall every time, things will start to become obvious the public, if they haven't already.
The last trump card, the congress subsidy for Obamacare, including their staff, how do you defend that?
Stand firm to keep the ruling class separate from the peasants?
Ha! I'd so love to see it!

So yes, it's worth it, to see that there isn't a formal separation between the ruling class and the rest of us peasants.

[PonoBill]

For what it's worth, this isn't the first federal shutdown. They happened a lot during the Reagan administration and I remember one that lasted about three weeks during the Clinton administration. They are theoretically expensive, but that's probably book keeping and whacky compensation for federal employees.

The ACA is a skanky bill, but then they all are. Unintended consequences will abound, and it will cost all of us a lot more money. What else is new. The underlying problems with American healthcare remain, and in fact are exacerbated by the bill (Individuals don't care about being overcharged when they're spending other people's money). But the pharma and healthcare lobbies won't let that be fixed, and President Obama has demonstrated repeatedly that he is as influenced by lobbyists and unions as anyone who ever held the office--including President Clinton.

Really the whole thing needs a big push of the reset button, but that won't happen. This is posturing and the media loves it all. Empty suits. The whole bunch of them.

[Tom]

I do not see the connection between the two. It looks to me that this is the Republican,/teaparty,s last ditch effort to discredit Obama and shut down the ACA.

[HanaSurf]

I do not see the connection between the two. It looks to me that this is the Republican,/teaparty,s last ditch effort to discredit Obama and shut down the ACA.

I totally agree and I hope this country shuts down the Tea Party in the next election.

[Weasels wake]

Shutting down the ACA has already been tossed.

And to Bill's point, so true, lets not forget that there were 8 government shutdowns during the Reagan administration.

And during those, there was none of this stuff going on~
NBC: Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/nbc-police-remove-vietnam-war-veterans-memorial-wall_759267.html

Or fencing off the other ones,,,,,,,,,,,, this is intentional.

[Weasels wake]

And it even get crazier, slam the source if you need to, but they aren't lying.

Feds Try to Close the OCEAN Because of Shutdown
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/Feds-Try-to-Close-the-OCEAN-Because-of-Shutdown

From the article~
Apparently, according to an anonymous Park Service ranger, “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

[lucabrasi]

Yes, why are the memorials being fenced off? So someone can make a point to blame someone else?

I guess someone needs to tell me what is going on. It seems I am not up to speed. I don't really watch news and am half afraid to turn any on. I have poked around a bit but not much. I did find out (I think) congress is not really exempt from ACA, or at least not as the rumor has it. I did make a point to turn on the top of the hours national news on the radio on Monday evening just before everything went to shit and the "headlines" were funny. I find news rather entertaining for the most part but beyond a disaster I don't find it the best place to get information.
Anyways, I had thought this was about a budget. Talking with my dad this afternoon that comes on 10/17 and I think I saw that somewhere else as well.
So, ACA was to kick in the next step on 10/1? There wasn't enough money to pay for it so other stuff had to be shut down to keep that going through? Is that what happened?
What is going on? If we weren't at the budget day on 10/1, what is all the drama and shutdowns for? If we were, how is it just one sides fault? Really? ACA was put in place and there isn't a way to get that in the budget because we already are spending to much on other things that brings it over to start with? Doesn't that have to be figured out?
Is the budget only over by the ACA amount? I kind of doubt that so they better sit down together now and start hammering out something. Screw this raising the ceiling crap that makes no one or anything accountable.

HM, thank you for the kind words but I do know I can be rather....incoherent and pontificating at times.
I get what you are saying and to set that precedent is not a good thing by any means, but if it's a law but needs funding, and we can't fund all the other stuff already, they need to sit down and figure out how to get that in there while they cut other stuff. What is this "we won't compromise" line of crap if it can't be fit in the budget to start with? Everyone needs to compromise then.
Am I missing something? I absolutely know I could very well be, and maybe hope I am.

[TN_SUP]

Our SUP race course was changed today because the coast guard is furloughed.

[stoneaxe]

It's all BS....federal employees will get a paid vacation just so that our so called leaders can make a point by causing us pain. This isn't saving a dime...it will cost money......what a bunch of assholes.
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/326773-house-approves-back-pay-for-workers-hit-by-the-shutdown

This isn't a new tactic....it's been done by both sides in the past. We need to get our collective heads out of the sand and get rid of all of them. How awesome would it be to send the message they all fear more than anything else....VOTE THE BUMS OUT...all of them...every incumbent thrown out by the people over the next couple of election cycles. Send a message that THEY work for us. If we could kill their connection to power and the access to it we could truly give this country back to the people. Unfortunately too many kool aid drinkers at both ends.

[SUPlime]

In twenty years the ACA will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. These TP Republicans will look like fools-if they don't already.

[stoneaxe]

In twenty years the ACA will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. These TP Republicans will look like fools-if they don't already.

Please remember that you are holding up two massively broken (and going broke) programs that grew far beyond their original scope...now think about where this one starts. In twenty years SS will be dead broke...it's unsustainable. I don't see how that says this will end well.

[pdxmike]

In twenty years the ACA will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. These TP Republicans will look like fools-if they don't already.

Please remember that you are holding up two massively broken (and going broke) programs that grew far beyond their original scope...now think about where this one starts. In twenty years SS will be dead broke...it's unsustainable. I don't see how that says this will end well.

Pretty similar to what I thought when I saw those examples.  Of course things are popular when you don't have to pay for them yourself.

That's not to say I'm a big fan of the shutdown, or hate everything about the ACA.  I just think popularity and validity are unrelated, esp. in cases where the financial burden goes to generations that don't yet exist, so obviously don't have their views represented. 

[headmount]

@Lucabrasi... From what I understand, the house was willing to fund everything in the budget but the ACA.  Probably a more effective tactic would have been to make cuts across the board, putting a spend limit in ACA before it even got off the launch pad and let the sucker through.  That way it flies or flops on its own merit.  But when the house did what they did, it was just an out and out confrontation with the Senate and Executive that has us here in shutdown land, leading up to a more decisive date of Oct 17.  Most predict some resolution will be met before then as none will result in default, which is definitely serious in regard to the value of our currency. 

PBill's reminder about the Reagan shut downs is good reality check.  With the way the government has been in stalemate, it's been popular recently to harken back to the good old days when Ron and Tip would get together like two Irish boxers, have a drink a iron out a compromise and maybe they did sometimes, but not always.  The past screw ups are usually glossed over, especially in regard to Reagan, who the republicans refer to as such a deity these days.

[lucabrasi]

well, if that's the case, that isn't too smart. Geez, what do you expect when you back someone into a corner like that. I agree, they should have cut across the board. Don't they have to? What kind of strategy was that? Sheesh.
Funding for ACA was set aside and earmarked? That rings a bell, or at least has been reported that way. Someone did say that.....I think Celeste. Does that mean they can't cut from that? I wouldn't think so because so many other things aren't following the "funding guidelines" that were set and the general rule, don't spend more than you take in.

They are all acting like a bunch of babies but I must say this is pretty brilliant (owch) running this during football today. 


They all need to pull their heads out of their ass tho.

I was thinking last nite, and as has been stated, this isn't new. I don't recall the Reagan ones, but this has been going on for a long, long, time I would think. Bickering and tantrums. Good ol' southern boys, NE well to do, and all sorts of clashing personalities and priorities together in congress for years and years working together. Hell, Davey Crockett was there. We just hear about it more now the way our world is now. There has probably been great performances long forgotten or never seen by the masses on the house and senate floors. Things weren't reported the same. JFK and his shenanigans with hot blondes, and so many other things were never reported like they would be now. Ahhh hell, it's just a big mess and I really think I still don't get it. Much posturing to come the next 10 days or so.