Nose rocker

[OUTSIDEWAVE]

 i thought I saw or read an article where in Kai Lenny was  saying that SU  boards don't need as much nose rocker as  prone boards do because they get into waves  much faster. This seems true to me although I am still slow getting into waves  and I notice that  many a time my nose is just an inch above the water as I make the drop just before I lay into my bottom turn, I would be interested in your thoughts

[southwesterly]

I have always hated over rockered boards in the nose or tail. Flatter is faster. If I get a board made and I get to talk to the shaper (instead of an underpaid Chinese factory worker), my motto has always been, "You make it go fast, I'll make it turn".

[SlatchJim]

I also think a certain amount of rocker is necessary for a good beginner/developmental board.  The more you sup surf, the more you can manage a flatter rocker line in all conditions.

[Biggreen]

I've been looking closely at many of these "pro" model boards by many of the manufacturers (in pics only) and they don't seem to have so much nose rocker as nose kick right at the end. Anyone else seeing this?

[supsurf-tw]

One thing to remember that as a board gets wider especially in the nose that rocker just pushes SOOOO much water and just stops a board. 6" of nose rocker in a 11" wide nose pushes a lot less water than an 18" wide nose with 6". SUP boards use the paddle to initiate turns also so rocker overall comes down.

You want the minimum rocker in a board to get the job done.

[bajasurf]

I under rockered my 8' SimSup at just over 4" due to what I read on the net, and I built it close to my Mini Simmons numbers...  Boy was I off, and I sink the nose on most takeoffs, unless I am in a super wide surf stance.  Be careful of what you hear or read out there...

I have 6 1/2" on my 10' board, and its perfect, the board catches everything and surfs great. The nose rocker on that board is an even blend on the top 3rd of the board and its perfect nose rocker... Be careful.  A shorter board will need more advanced rocker, as it takes off on the stepper more critical part of the wave, as where as a 10 ' plus board glides more, get into waves earlier, and you can add a gentler rocker over the whole board.

Also, be careful of end numbers, rockers are one of the more complicated aspects about a surfboard, just a little variation and you can get dog or a magical board.  Every once in a while, I think I have rocker down, then I build a board, and after a few surfs, I realize what I want different... For me, nose rocker isnt as complicated as center and tail rocker...

Just a backyard guy, throwing my 2 cents in, trying to help.  No expert by any means. 

[SUPflorida]

How much tail rocker? I looked into the same thing (8' Simmons style) and found a theme of  5-1/2" nose kick and 2-1/2" tail kick. Keep in mind some of these boards are shorter than 8' and the nose and tail kick dimensions that work on a Simmons 7'-2" we hear someone rave about, might be too flat a rocker line for an 8'-0."  Bottom contours are effecting it too...one has convex entry another has concave, one has heavily chined rails another has concave all the way to the rails....one with a narrower and/or thinner tail can get away will less rocker as well...it all factors in.

I rarely get halfway through completing aboard before I already know I want to change one or more  attributes of the design...that's what makes it interesting...get a good base shape that you like, then make small changes one at a time....its more about refining than major innovations. I would love to have the money and access to CNC for the experimentation....it would be great to keep everything you like about your shape and just dial in nose rocker in increments as little as 1/16" or 1/8" at a time after you get in the ball park.

[supsurf-tw]

Yes rocker is more than just a single dimension in the nose or tail, its a combo of nose and tail together. It's best to take in consideration that if there's a little flip in the nose that you'll want to measure nose rocker back a few inches.

With rocker you need to consider the length of the board, width (especially tail width), bottom contour and thickness. All these factors are important to consider when planning the rocker profile

[bajasurf]

My tail rocker is a bit off also  On my 8'  I have 2 1/2 and truthfully I could add another inch   The center rocker is a bit flat , and it should've a bit more curve  like I said, I built it like my Mini , but these boards share the outline , of their younger brother, the rocker and rail lines differ   I used to use very little rocker thinking it would get me into the waves easier, but after studing my 8.6 stretch board, I found out that's just  of the case, more of a oval continual curvature rocker catches waves better for me and also surfs better   Rocker is not the enemy, it's only the enemy when implied improperly

On my next SimSup copy, I will have 6" nose and 3 1/2 tail and dems will be 8 .8x32x4 3/4  heavily steeped rails with chimed rails on bottom  slight rolled front third and slight V the rest of the way

I posted this off my phone   So forgive any errors

[bajasurf]

One more thing  I build boards to surf like a traditional surfboard   I use the paddle sparIngly  only slightly to initiate turns, but the few SUPs that I have built surf great as surfboards

I m new to this, and some guys rock on SUP   That will never be me  I will be the guy that takes off behind the peak, makes the sections, nice cutback, and set up thenext section, just like I would be riding my longboard  big smile   

 I see the top guys dig the paddle and make huge hacks, they rock, but their board needs differ from what I would ride  same goes for prone, my wafer thin boards are way in my past  now I ride boards that are easy to paddle, catch waves and ride

[raf]

I just measured my (one I made) "sim-sup" style 7-6.  It has 3.5" nose rocker, and 1.5" tail rocker.  Its pretty much a slab, but it goes hella fast and is super fun in mushy surf.  I don't pearl so much as catch the edge of the nose when making a turn, so I wish I had pulled the nose in a little...but then it wouldn't catch waves as easy.  I wouldn't recommend going much less than these rockers. 

[bajasurf]

Wow, that is lower rocker numbers  that's what I use on my 6.6 mini prone board 

[surfcowboy]

I rode a 7'11" SIC at BOP and it had almost no rocker. They mentioned that the production model would have more nose rocker.

I sank the nose on almost every wave at first, but once I dialed the timing to step back it was ok. I think that the "flip" would be good for the smaller boards.

I had a Coreban Vibe that was a banana and while amazing surfing a beachbreak, it pushed water like a dozer in mushier waves.

[daswusup]

I just took my 11'6" BOGA race trainer board out in headhigh beach break surf to see if it would work. It is a displacement hull with no rocker at all and a single fin. It was super fun! It has great secondary stability and is super fast. I could catch any wave I wanted and get pretty fun turns down the line. It felt like a classic longboard on the wave, really cruisy and fun. I have to say that one of my favorite aspects of the displacement hull in the surf was that it would punch through whitewater effortlessly on the way out. It just splits the foam right in half.  I think that we could start seeing flatter surf sups with a little bit of displacement bow integrated for wave punching. I have been surfing a Hokua 8'10" 115 liter alot lately and while super shreddy down the line,  it lacks all of the things that I love about sups; speed, dryness, view, wearing a 3/2 instead of a 4/3. It is so tippy that I end up prone paddling it 80% of the time and then jumping up and taking  a few paddle stokes to catch the wave. If its bumpy I end up falling half of the time on those few strokes and missing the wave. And as a result wandering why I even have a paddle with me. I know that the smaller boards have a time and place in the quiver, but it sure can be frustrating sometimes when it is not glassy. I surf mostly in Santa Cruz and Norcal, and it is definitely nice to stay out of the water and vertical on my board. BTW, I never once purled the BOGA. I think that the nose rocker does help in small steep beach breaks. For everything else, I would rather have stability and glide so I can ride 50 wave/session instead of 20. The other rad thing about a fast board is that when you kick out of a wave, you can make those critical 5-10 paddlestrokes to get outside quick without taking gas. I have been perusing some of the gun shapes that I think would fill this niche nicely. I would like to try a 10'ish gun with a slight displacement bow and subtle rocker. Anything like that out there?

[mik911]

I just took my 11'6" BOGA race trainer board out in headhigh beach break surf to see if it would work. It is a displacement hull with no rocker at all and a single fin. It was super fun! It has great secondary stability and is super fast. I could catch any wave I wanted and get pretty fun turns down the line. It felt like a classic longboard on the wave, really cruisy and fun. I have to say that one of my favorite aspects of the displacement hull in the surf was that it would punch through whitewater effortlessly on the way out. It just splits the foam right in half.  I think that we could start seeing flatter surf sups with a little bit of displacement bow integrated for wave punching. I have been surfing a Hokua 8'10" 115 liter alot lately and while super shreddy down the line,  it lacks all of the things that I love about sups; speed, dryness, view, wearing a 3/2 instead of a 4/3. It is so tippy that I end up prone paddling it 80% of the time and then jumping up and taking  a few paddle stokes to catch the wave. If its bumpy I end up falling half of the time on those few strokes and missing the wave. And as a result wandering why I even have a paddle with me. I know that the smaller boards have a time and place in the quiver, but it sure can be frustrating sometimes when it is not glassy. I surf mostly in Santa Cruz and Norcal, and it is definitely nice to stay out of the water and vertical on my board. BTW, I never once purled the BOGA. I think that the nose rocker does help in small steep beach breaks. For everything else, I would rather have stability and glide so I can ride 50 wave/session instead of 20. The other rad thing about a fast board is that when you kick out of a wave, you can make those critical 5-10 paddlestrokes to get outside quick without taking gas. I have been perusing some of the gun shapes that I think would fill this niche nicely. I would like to try a 10'ish gun with a slight displacement bow and subtle rocker. Anything like that out there?

I know exactly what you're talking about.  I cannot resist surfing/catching a few waves on whatever board I happen to be on, including my displacement hull race boards (Bark 14', Fanatic Fly Race 12'6).  The super early entry is addicting.  Problem with these boards in the surf is....they don't surf very well. Yeah, I can coax it into a angle and glide down the line, but that's pretty much it.  The whole while, holding on for dear life, as these boards are inherently unstable. 
My solution:
http://www.rivierapaddlesurf.com/collections/ron-house/products/ron-house-126-coastal-cruiser-stand-up-paddle-board-w-handle-traction

At 12'6", it distance paddles decently to get to the uncrowded spots, and gets into waves early.  It's pulled in nose punches through waves decently.  Best of all, it surfs pretty well.  I've got a Allison Ninja fin on it, which is a compromise between tracking and maneuvering in the surf.
In fact, I've had a couple long conversations with Larry Allison about board shapes (semi-displacment nose) that allows for distance and surfing.  He pointed me to a couple custom solutions (MHL and Infinity), but I was in a hurry at the beginning of the summer to get a board I could use immediately, so I got the Ron House.  Been having fun on it all summer.