Pro Box - Should I convert to Pro Box fin systems or not? Tell me why?

[magentawave]

Pro Box Larry or anyone else...  Please sell me on the reasons why I should convert to Pro Box? Advantages and disadvantages please.

Thanks

Steve

[Strand Leper]

Steve,

The only thing keeping me with my current system is the abundance of fins that I currently have for my system.

If I was starting from a small base of fins, there is no question that I would go pro box for everything.

Still will probably do pro box for my next board. Why?  Well my twin has Larry's fins in it... And the glasser made the board WAY too heavy for its intended purpose... So now it is my designated draining reef barrel board due to its speed and strength. Well, when you really lean on those fins... I mean really... The energy is not dissipated due to any flex in the base... It just seems connected.

One one little cutback at third point Malibu on Moday of this week, I was super surprised at the speed generated off the fin. Still thinking about it... The reason for the speed was the "connectedness" of the fin... No energy lost at the base.

I may have no idea what I am talking about... But thieves are my impressions.

SL

[Dwight (DW)]

Pro and cons of the boxes on the market in my view.

Futures
1) boxes all install flat. Really makes it harder to get cant angle right with vee and concave messing with bottom angles. Very limited and dumb design in my view.
2) Fin side fit must be nightmarish tight or fin tips over in box. Making them a bitch to knock out and replace.
3) Rear fins in a quad setup vary so wildly, you could be chasing the right feel forever. Some rear fins sit in the back of the box, some don't. A full 1" variance in spacing from the front fins. WTF  

Fusion
1) comes in 3 cant angles.
2) used to have 1/4" adjustment fore and aft. Made for great tuning. A 1/4" shift in fin location makes a huge difference. 1/2" gap change between front and rear.
3) They removed the adjustment. They are dead to me now. The lack of adjustment with the new boxes bit me in the ass on my last board. I had to route new boxes 1/4" farther back.

ProBox.
1) has 1/2" adjustment fore and after, plus cant adjustment. A huge benefit for guys pushing SUP design to new limits.
2) FCS fins fit the box. Although it looks like I might have to grind 1/16" off the bottom of FCS fin tabs to make them sit flush in the ProBox. Or cut the bottom out of the ProBox cant angle insert to allow the fin to drop in deeper. Maybe Larry can confirm. I've only had my hands on one board with ProBox to check FCS fin fit.
3) I think ProBox installs are stronger.

[Dwight (DW)]

Just had a funny thought.  The switch by FCS to an all new FCS II design is just the ticket for Larry to achieve world domination  

FCS what were you thinking  

Looking forward to the switch to Probox

[surfinib]

DW has it right on all points. FCS fins fit into Pro-Box with no alterations. I was riding my board with FCS fins while waiting for a chance to get up to LA to drop it off with Larry. Also SL is right, the Pro-box seem to hold the fins like glass ons. Flex is distributed in the fin and not by a deflection of the box pulling up on the board lamination. After having a Future box blow out to the side mid turn on my first L41 S4, I started looking for other options. Pro-Box seems the strongest in this regard. The cant options and the ability to slide the fins forward or back made the choice a no brainer for me.

[JeanG]

How much weight does converting add? Not necessarily the boxes themselves, but ripping out and re-glassing?

[surfinib]

Larry has a blog on future conversions:
http://www.probox-larryretrofits.blogspot.com/
I had my second L41 S4 made with Pro-Box so I am not sure how much weight a retrofit would add. I believe the system only weighs a few grams more than the others on a stock install. I am sure he will weigh in on this thread at some point. I know I saw a thread/blog somewhere with weight differences back when I first started to look at Pro-Box but I could not find it again.
-RH

[stoneaxe]

My experience is limited to just two sessions for a total of 5 hours so take it for what its worth.

Any board I have made from this point on will have pro-boxes in it. I'll leave it to the folks that know to talk about strength of install and all that. My knowledge of mechanics tells me they should be stronger though. What's more important to me though is what I feel and what I've experienced.

Larry worked closely with the glasser for my new board to get the twins positioned perfectly. I have a hard time describing what I feel on them but I love it. How a fin can work to generate speed down the line but still be loose in hard turns is beyond me. I have no idea how much of what I'm feeling is board and how much fin but the fact that it seems so perfectly married is amazing. My shaper and glasser both said they would never have placed the fins where Larry did and both are very experienced guys. I guess that's what comes when you live, eat, and dream about fins for 40 years. The fact that I can also play with cant angle to dial it even more, create a little asymmetry by using a different angle heel side (haven't tried it yet but it makes sense). I really can't wait to see what else he comes up with for combinations.

Larry's passion and knowledge for fins is second to none. We are lucky to have him as a resource here. That kind of passion deserves our support...it also happens to make our boards rip.

[surfinib]

I have to agree with Bob on getting Larry and your shaper together as placement is everything. Pro-Box typically do not go in the same location as the other systems. I got both Kirk at L41 and Larry talking with me, then they started talking directly and set the box locations (not without some issues - first shaped blank had Futures installed mistakenly by the glassers, Kirk quickly shaped me another). I told Kirk that he should be expecting more requests for Pro-Box coming. Larry is a valuable resource for us and he is extremely generous with his time and knowledge.
-RH

[Strand Leper]

For my twin fin, Larry made the fins for me custom, and then went to the glasser to do the install and make sure it was done right.

Enough said.

Pro box.

If FCS fit pro box inserts... Well that is just GRAVY.

SL

[magentawave]

I started this thread because I've been experimenting a bit with fins in my simsup and wow what a difference it made! (mentioned in another thread with photos) So yesterday I was going to swap out my rear fins for smaller ones and discovered that the frikkin rear Futures boxes are shallower than the front boxes, hence my fins won't fit unless I grind off a bunch. DW mentioned this in another thread a couple days ago and when I read it I was thinking "Huh?!" cuz I didn't know Futures made 2 different boxes even though I've been using them for years. Anywho, I have been resistant to change systems like SL mentioned because of my inventory in fins but yesterday I went through all of them and discovered that I actually have more FCS than Futures so the transition to Probox won't be nearly as painful as I thought.

2 questions please...

To clarify, with Probox I can move the fins fore and aft AND I can change the cant on the fly?

How resistant are shapers and glassers to using Probox?

[Dwight (DW)]

2 questions please...

To clarify, with Probox I can move the fins fore and aft AND I can change the cant on the fly?

Yes, absolutely.

You'll need to carry cant inserts with you.  

[supuk]

I started this thread because I've been experimenting a bit with fins in my simsup and wow what a difference it made! (mentioned in another thread with photos) So yesterday I was going to swap out my rear fins for smaller ones and discovered that the frikkin rear Futures boxes are shallower than the front boxes, hence my fins won't fit unless I grind off a bunch. DW mentioned this in another thread a couple days ago and when I read it I was thinking "Huh?!" cuz I didn't know Futures made 2 different boxes even though I've been using them for years. Anywho, I have been resistant to change systems like SL mentioned because of my inventory in fins but yesterday I went through all of them and discovered that I actually have more FCS than Futures so the transition to Probox won't be nearly as painful as I thought.

2 questions please...

To clarify, with Probox I can move the fins fore and aft AND I can change the cant on the fly?

How resistant are shapers and glassers to using Probox?

a little late now but the shallow rear future box are made for thin short boards that don't have the thickness for the deep box in the rear, however with sup's you normally have stacks of thickness so you can use the deep boxes in the tail all so and then run the spacer underneath to use a shallow rear fin or with out if its a front fin you are using.

 I would like to try probox boxes but the availability of the boxes and fins is holding me back at the moment, i know you can use fcs but after snapping a few it is booth expensive and inconvenient were as i am yet to ever break a future fin.

[Larry Allison]

Pro Box Larry or anyone else...  Please sell me on the reasons why I should convert to Pro Box? Advantages and disadvantages please.

Thanks

Steve

Steve , Just got back from the beach and had a few PMs stating you were looking for me (-: LOL. Let me get a few Honey Dew thinks done and I will add to what the others have added my friend. Cool idea today at the beach for my friends birthday party, Paddle Boarding rides no Blow up jumper!

[Bean]

I like the fact that ProBox supplies multiple templates so you can install all fins at the same time.  You can also set up a subtle assym by using different cants on each side (see previous Chris Hill posts).