Problem with a Starboard Point

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

Well, first off, I'm not very good at surfing anyway so it's not saying much.  The first times I went downwind it was painful...more like running or work.  I fell off a lot and paddled as hard as I could.

Once I started learning how to read the swells and catch them it became a whole new animal.  There can be times during the run where 80% is spent riding and connecting these ocean swells.  It's kinda like catching a hundred little waves in one session.  When I compare that to some of my surf sessions in waist high waves where I can catch maybe 10-15 waves or so in a 2 hour period, sit out a bunch to not hog stuff, etc, it makes these downwinders more enjoyable. 

I also burn way more calories during the downwinder and am not in any line up or anyone's way.  The downside is the logistics of coordinating drop off or cars to get back to the launch point and of course, sharks. 

I guess if I was one of these big wave surfers then I may not feel this way but for the most part I'm in waist to chest high surf on the average during a surf session.  Now, whenever I am surfing in waist high surf with decent tradewinds I can't help but think about how it would be on a downwinder instead.

Also, if you know me, I am not an endurance sport kinda guy but this one doesn't seem like that because I'm trying to catch waves the whole way.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

DW - When you come this winter, if there's good tradewinds then let's go on a downwind run so you can see what I'm talking about.  It sometimes takes a few times to get the hang of it but once you do, I think you'll be hooked.

The turning point for these downwinders for me was when Kainoa B paddled with me and showed me what to look for, how to adjust my timing, etc.  That saved me weeks if not months of trial and error.

[LaPerouseBay]

This won't help much with the discussion of rocker and flat water, but you may find it interesting.  FWIW, I agree that less rocker performs better on flat water - seems perfectly logical.  A board that dosn't fit the conventional wisdom is the f-18.  Mine does very well on flat water, yet it was designed for maliko runs.  It's an early prototype (#5) that dave kalama was using about a thousand years ago in SUP development time (last june).  The board has very little rocker, but the canoe front end acts like a rocker when the front dips.  You can  let it go down in the nose, it slows down a bit, but it won't pearl.   Very fun board.  I'm lucky I got it used, new ones are quite spendy.  But you can bet the new ones are more refined.  I'm 190, and it's quite floaty,  It's only 4 1/2 inches thick, maybe a bit less because the deck is a bit concave, but the 18-2 length and  27 1/2 width make for a very large board indeed.  The rails are very square, so its quite stable.  Vee nose, flat bottom, no channels.  Catches almost any size downwind wave.  Fast as can be on flat water.  But no fun in a side chop.  Lots of windage.

As for the fun factor of a maliko run, I find them irresistable.  Gets a bit scary at times, but that's half the fun.  Woo hoo!!

[PonoBill]

Actually, I was hanging out, shooting pictures at SIC when Mark was shaping the first F18. He was building it for a California guy and said it was specifically designed for the flatter conditions in CA.

[LaPerouseBay]

^ I stand corrected.  The first f-18 was designed for flat water.  I'm guessing the f-18 dave used to win maliko this year was specifically designed for that run.  Bottom line is that they really are fun boards, flat or downwind.   

[Steve R.]

Hi Bill,

I was lucky enough to get one of the first Points in the country. When I first started paddling the board it felt slow to me also. I weigh about 185 lbs. The key paddling position after paddling a couple of hundred miles in both flat and surf is to have your toes touching the line where the waffle pad ends and the smooth pad begins.

Have someone paddle next to you and help you adjust the trimm. The key is not to drag the tail on the Point. I was able to increase my swell catching ability by keeping forward on the board and then moving back to keep the board on plane.

Steve
Hi-tech Surf Sports

[PonoBill]

Steve, I think the key is that you weigh 185 and I weigh 248. That's about one whole Backstreet Boy. I'm going to try removing the A.S.S. (the board's, not mine) and standing even further forward, but I'm already standing with my toes over the waffle and into the flat area.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

Ahhhhh...248 lbs.  That makes a big difference. 

[John Hibbard]

Hi Bill,

I've posted a reply to a similar query you made on the Starboard SUP forum http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4473.

It does sound like you could do with standing forward a bit further. I find I stand next to the rudder cable attachments on the 14'8" when paddling on flat water. I weigh about 165lbs though so it's a whole different game  if you are in the 200lbs range I'd guess.

The 12'2" is a quick board but I think, as has been mentioned already here, once you get in any swell a distance orientated board will be of huge benefit. That's kind of why I like the Starboard point. I used it to win a flat water race on Saturday (using the forward standing stance) and then on Sunday won a choppy coastal race on the same board.

We are in the very early days of distance racing here in the UK. It's great to hear what you guys are up to over there. I'd love to come over and test myself against the level you have established. We do a fair bit of flat water circuit style races, but I love it when we get the chance to catch some glides. Even in the small stuff it's amazing how quickly you can catch someone up with a good glide.

We have a coastal distance race coming up this weekend. It will be interesting to see how the 14'8" performs in that race. Nobody has a flat rockered distance board here and as we are prone to choppy conditions I think an all round board would be better anyway. I'm also discovering that there is no replacment for fitness in racing!

John

[Admin]

Ahhhhh...248 lbs.  That makes a big difference. 

It seems really unlikely to me that a board would feel similar to riders seperated by 70 lbs or so.  The extra weight has to just push that rocker deeper in and change the glide.  A lifted nose for the lighter guy might become a plowing nose for the heavier person.  Even 30 lbs makes a big difference when you are close to the limits. 

I don't know what sized person the point was designed for, but as it seems like it is working really well for guys in the 165, 185 range, my guess would be something like that.

[PonoBill]

Yeah, I looked on the Starboard website to see if they mentioned a weight range--no dice. I even looked at Ke Nalu because our reviews generally include suggested weight--no review of the Point. Hey, who's running that show!?!  Incompetent bastard.

In the cold light of morning I'm resisting calling Mark because I know it's going to cost me a bunch of money. I think I'll go paddle my 12'2" and see if I can break 55 minutes for 4.5 miles.

[Mark Raaphorst]

Good to see that there is so much curiosity and enthusisam about point-to-point stand-up paddle boarding.

Regarding the use of GPS  - it is a great tool for training, and recording your distance and speed on any given session.   But to use it to  compare one board speed to another, my feeling is  that there are so many variables out there - wind, current and swell, not to mention conditioning of the paddler to get an accurate read on board comparison.
In my experience, the best way to compare 2 or more boards is to get 2 paddlers of equal or similar ability, to paddle together.  Using The Point board as the constant, one guy rides The Point while the other paddles a diffeernt board alongside him.  Do the same course again with The Point paddler still on his board and the second guy trying out yet a different board.  If, for example, The Point is ahead on each run then it's a decent guess that that is the fastest board of the 3 being compared. 

As a shaper accepting a custom order, the #1 question I pose is "In what conditions would you like the board to perform best in?"  My #2 question is "Are you a fun-loving weekend warrior wanting a competitive edge when you are out there or are you seriously looking to win races?"  Other serious considerations are the ability and size of the paddler.  I often have to shape a board that will perform best in a variety of conditions.  The Point was born with the Maliko Gulch run as it's training ground.  The Maliko run is a straight downwind run with an average of 17 knots at your back.  Swell size ranges from 5'-15'.  These are conditions considered to be very rough in a lot of other parts of the world.  Now, one must wonder - does The Point only work in these extreme conditions?  The answer is no.  It performs well in flat water.  Can a faster board for just flat water be designed?  Yes it can.  Will a board like that be comfortable and fun on a Maliko run?  Probably not.  The Point  weight limit is 215lbs.  Its volume will hold a bigger person yet the glide will be much more limited.  Basically, the lighter a person, the less friction between the board and the water.   That is not to say that there aren't boards out there for the bigger guys, you just need the right one for you.  On the flip side of that idea is that the heavier person is often stronger and so can put more torque behind his blade.

 For some people the steering system is like an acquired taste:  it is a great tool once you learn how best to use it to your advantage.   Its greatest asset is that it makes your board more maneuverable.  Look at the rudder as a correction tool, not a power-steering device.  One way to assure that you are not creating resistance and slowing your board down, is knowing how to use the steering sytem correctly.  Once you catch a swell, you can use it more radically  because you already have inertia.  On the flats however, use the foot pedal lightly to help keep you in a straight line on course.  Cross-breeze and current will have less effect because you can paddle on both sides instead of being forced to paddle on one side.

One last note: the "sweet spot" on any board changes depending on the rider and also on the conditions.  There is always a certain amount of "dancing"  to be done when stand-up paddling.  For each rider it  can be figured out by the one and only true measure: WATER TIME.  So in closing.....less blog time and more paddle time :-)

Have a great time out there - Mark

[PonoBill]

Hey Mark, good talking to you today, and thanks for all the advice. I mis-spoke about the max speed I've managed with the 12'2" -- I WISH I was going that fast. My fastest time so far with the 12'2" is 6.4 MPH and an average for one mile of 5.9. About killed me doing it.

[stoneaxe]

Hhmmm...I may have to cut off a leg to get to that 215....

[wadadli_waterman]

This won't help much with the discussion of rocker and flat water, but you may find it interesting.  FWIW, I agree that less rocker performs better on flat water - seems perfectly logical.  A board that dosn't fit the conventional wisdom is the f-18.  Mine does very well on flat water, yet it was designed for maliko runs.  It's an early prototype (#5) that dave kalama was using about a thousand years ago in SUP development time (last june).  The board has very little rocker, but the canoe front end acts like a rocker when the front dips.  You can  let it go down in the nose, it slows down a bit, but it won't pearl.   Very fun board. 

Hey LaPerouse............you got any pics to share of your F18?  I am very interested in the canoe nose/bow shape.