Problem with a Starboard Point

[kurtr]

Just to echo John's and greatdane's points about low-rockered customs in flat water:

I had the opportunity Tuesday to paddle an 18' x 26 1/2" Bark custom that had very little rocker, and in a flat-water sprint I pulled away from my friends on their all-arounders like they were standing still.   One of them I race regularly, and on my 11' 9" Angulo we've been more or less even.

The sensation I got was that the only limitation to that board's speed was the muscle I could put into it (and my muscles felt it, for sure!).  We had a GPS and probably should have used it more scientifically, but we were more into just getting a feel for the board, since we're all newbs on distance boards. 

With pretty dead wind in protected water, I did 5.8 mph max paddling at about 70 - 80% when I first hopped on it.  I went all out a while later (in the opposite direction) after I warmed up to see just how fast I could get it moving, but the GPS was mounted to the board and we forgot to check it when we got ashore.   

I'm looking forward to trying 14' and 16' versions of the same shape to see how they compare.  But I'll tell you what -- in those conditions that board was a rocket.  I'll bet someone with more paddling strength than I have (like you, Bill, geezer and bad shoulders or not  ) could really get that thing flying. 

We didn't weigh the board, but it felt about 30 lbs.  And I'm 6'3" 195, BTW.

I really hope your board works out for you, Bill, but if not and you're in SoCal sometime, Joe Bark is extremely generous with his demos.   


Kurt     

[PonoBill]

I'll see if someone w/ more Starboard Point experience can post an answer to this thread.

Mark designed the thing, I need to give him a call.

[SteveF]

I read on one of the forums (it might have boon the Starboard forum), that two of the Starboard team tested the 12'6 and the Point (14' side by side, they even switched boards. Their conclusion was that the Point was only slightly faster than the 12'6 on flat water.

There have been a couple of intersting discussions on down wind boards on the SeaBreeze forum involving the designer of the Laguna Bay Penetrator (16'). 

[stoneaxe]

Damn....those are disappointing numbers. I don't have the GPS to test with but I'm sure I can beat 4.5 (at a steady pace) on flat water on the 12-6. Wish we could have gotten one sent out for the CCBC. Would have loved to do the comparison you're doing.

Wonder if I can get Vec to shape me a custom.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

Damn....those are disappointing numbers. I don't have the GPS to test with but I'm sure I can beat 4.5 (at a steady pace) on flat water on the 12-6.

4.5 mph doesn't seem that slow to me.  Guy Pere won the 10 mile Duke's race during the Duke's Oceanfest in roughly 1.5 hours.  That makes him at 9 mph.  He was so fast that I didn't even see him.  I took about 2 hrs so that makes me 5 mph.  The median time for that race was 2:05 which is roughly the same. 

[PonoBill]

I did 4.5 miles today on my 12'2"  in 57:13:70 against a five to ten knot wind but with the current, average speed was 4.7, max speed was 5.7. total distance was 14.12 miles, I sprinted going back after a steady paddle upriver. I paddled upriver seven miles, then sprinted back 4.5 to get a time, then cruised back to my truck. Hard workout, but I was pleased with the speed. I'm going to play with the point some more, but I think the 12'2" is what I'll use for the "Battle of the Paddle"

I had to delete the last few miles (lap 3) because my GPS didn't shut off when I tripped it, and recorded my drive to lunch, which really messes up the scale. I wish the software had better editing ability

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

One thing I noticed in the Duke race was that once we hit the last stretch it was glassy and no wind.  At that point a number of the lie down paddleboard guys caught up and passed me.  I was looking for any ground swells to help out but no luck.  It reminded me of running which to me is basically pure work.  I don't think I would do distance runs if there wasn't any bump and wind. 

[stoneaxe]

Damn....those are disappointing numbers. I don't have the GPS to test with but I'm sure I can beat 4.5 (at a steady pace) on flat water on the 12-6.

4.5 mph doesn't seem that slow to me.  Guy Pere won the 10 mile Duke's race during the Duke's Oceanfest in roughly 1.5 hours.  That makes him at 9 mph.  He was so fast that I didn't even see him.  I took about 2 hrs so that makes me 5 mph.  The median time for that race was 2:05 which is roughly the same. 

4.5 isn't slow for a non-race board. I guess if you look at the point as a production distance board its not bad but if you're considering it a race board....
I guess if I want to get serious about training I'll need a GPS. Until then its somewhat guessing, but my best guess based on google maps and a watch is that I've averaged 5.4 mph over a 5 mile course (2.5 miles each way) in flatwater and almost no wind on my 12-6. That's absolutely maxed out, at the end of the 5 I had a hard time lifting my arms.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

There's gotta be a significant difference for a board made for flat water and one for wind at your back and wind swells. 

[Dwight (DW)]

There's gotta be a significant difference for a board made for flat water and one for wind at your back and wind swells. 

I agree with Evan. I've tried paddling down wind in 25 knots and my number one issue was pearling. The strong wind gusts at my back had the nose constantly dipping under. I had to stand farther back on the board, then I was too far back, then I'd go forward and so on. Nothing really worked. My well rockered PSH still had no where near enough rocker for doing open ocean down winders around here. I need something like those dedicated Hawaii down wind racers.

The price is holding me back though. And room in my garage. 

[kurtr]

There's gotta be a significant difference for a board made for flat water and one for wind at your back and wind swells. 

I agree as well.  Both Stu Campbell and Joe Bark use displacement hulls rather than planing hulls, as well as less rocker, in their racing boards.  Check  the first vid in DavidJohn's post toward the bottom of the page: http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40846&whichpage=2

I'm new to all this, but my experience on that 18' Bark on flat water was an eye-opener.

Kurt 

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

I bet when you look at the Joe Bark boards made for flat water, they have much more relaxed rockers, rails, etc.  e.g. the lie down paddleboards look much different than the SUP ones. 

I notice if I'm in glassy flat water, my balance is not an issue.  I can ride something much narrower and low rocker seems faster.  Add in 20 mph + wind, side chop, ocean bump, etc and the whole game changes.  I'm still waiting to try a Bark, Dennis Pang, etc SUP racer.  Hopefully it will be this year.  The C4 Vortice has a lot of rocker, especially in the nose.  That doesn't help me much in flat water but when the swell gets big it sure does. 

I got a short video of Todd B explaining the difference between displacement hulls and planing hulls.  I need the green light before posting it but I think it answers some of these questions. 

DW - in the open ocean, if you have ocean swell and wind at your back you really should try a dedicated racing board like the C4 Vortice, F16 (or anything F line) and any of the new ones coming out like the Surftech Bark 14' or this Starboard 15'.  Even the Jimmy Lewis 12'6" catches ocean swells pretty decently. 

The advantage these 14'+ boards have over the boards 12' and under is that they make it way easier to 'connect' the ocean swells.  That connection is what makes a big difference in your time.  You can be behind someone and get a couple good runners where you go from one ocean swell to the next and all of a sudden you're 50 yards ahead.  It takes a really good surf session for me to have more fun than a good downwind run nowadays.  It does take a while to figure out and see the swell lines.  I'm still learning and it's definitely a fun new challenge.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

Has anyone ridden that penetrator board in DJ's video?

[Dwight (DW)]

DW - in the open ocean, if you have ocean swell and wind at your back you really should try a dedicated racing board like the C4 Vortice, F16 (or anything F line) and any of the new ones coming out like the Surftech Bark 14' or this Starboard 15'.  Even the Jimmy Lewis 12'6" catches ocean swells pretty decently. 

I really need to demo one of these. Not easy to do here on the east coast. Maybe when I come to Hawaii this Winter.

It takes a really good surf session for me to have more fun than a good downwind run nowadays. 

Holly Crap, that is a shocking statement. Boy do I need to try one of these!

[stoneaxe]

It takes a really good surf session for me to have more fun than a good downwind run nowadays. 

Holly Crap, that is a shocking statement. Boy do I need to try one of these!

Ditto.....amazing to see you say that Evan. I know I've had fun in some of the pseudo mini-down-winders I've done and I've been aching to try my hand (and feet.. ) at the real thing. I'll have to content myself with runs on my 12-6 for now but I'm looking for someone to partner up with on some high wind days. I don't think it's something you want to do alone both for logistics and safety.