Can we kill board length limits?

[PonoBill]

So I have a simple question--why are there board length limits for SUP racing? Why do we have them at all? Doesn't it make more sense for people to race the board that suits them best? The board they can go fastest on?

It's a remarkably destructive rule that seems to have come about in a completely arbitrary manner. I'm pretty certain everyone understands that 12'6" favors smaller paddlers to the degree that powerful larger elite paddlers won't compete in races where 12'6" is the limit. Why would they? They can't compete effectively--it's a jockey sport.

A 14' board is only marginally better. But the fundamental question remains--why is there a limit at all? A highly conditioned, smaller paddler has an advantage over a similarly conditioned larger paddler to begin with. If they were both on boards that perfectly suited their size and strength, the advantage would be narrower and the smaller person would be on a shorter board. And still probably win--but at least it would be a race.

Dave Kalama's recent showing in the Olokai race is a perfect example. Connor still beat him, but the six guys behind him didn't, and if everyone was on 14' boards they probably would have.

Is this really good for SUP racing? Does it make sense? Can this arbitrary direction be reversed at this date?

In my view this was determined by a few people making a quick decision early in the sport. Somehow it got accepted as a standard by race organizers and codified by would-be rulemakers. I think there's still time to reverse this and simply open up the limit as it is in open ocean racing and some distance racing. If race organizers ditch the limit it will go away fast, and the evolution of fast boards can start again. As it is now, SUP will be constrained to always being a lot slower than OC-1s and other paddle craft.

The OC-1 and Surfski guys think we're insane to have board length limits. I think they're right.

[Muskoka SUP]

+1.

It would also give manufacturers more cause to gear up for production quantities of longer boards....which would be a very good thing.....even for those of us who have no need to race. 

Not too long ago, at the end of one of my downwinders which conveniently end at a friends house at the end of the lake, the same friend (who is a marathon canoe racer -his solo marathon canoe is 18' long) looked at my 14' board, and asked sincerely "why is it so short...?."       

Allow unlimiteds, more will be made, more people will buy them and use them, and even more will be made. Evolution. Simple.

DS

[raf]

I don't think the industry wants limits removed.  Its nice and easy dealing with 12-6 as the default class.  Instead of carrying 2 sizes, shops will have to carry 52 sizes, at 3 inch intervals of length and 1/2" intervals of width for each length.  Its extremely impractical.  Molded boards like those out of Thailand would become even more expensive.  In fact, all boards would become much more expensive, as lower volumes of each size would be sold.

It'd be great for the custom shops/shapers though.

From a pure racing standpoint, it'd be better, as you say.  From a retail perspective, it'd be a disaster.

[JeanG]

Is there a retail disaster in the OC and surfski industries?

[stoneaxe]

+1 ......but I don't think we'll see much change.

What percentage of racers are big? Enough to make it a concern of the big name brands? I doubt folks that aren't big will care enough to make it an issue and some will definitely argue for whatever gives them an advantage.

I also can't see the manufacturers that sponsor races wanting unlimited board lengths. I was going to comment more but  I think what Raf posted above (as I was posting this) says it all.

[raf]

Is there a retail disaster in the OC and surfski industries?

I dunno, let me run down to my local OC/Surfski shop and ask...oh wait, nm, there isn't one.

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

I'm not speaking from any real experience, but does it make sense to keep a 12'6" class for less competitive racers? This could be the "casual racers" class, where those who would have absolutely no chance in the 14' class could actually compete.

[Muskoka SUP]

I don't think the industry wants limits removed.  Its nice and easy dealing with 12-6 as the default class.  Instead of carrying 2 sizes, shops will have to carry 52 sizes, at 3 inch intervals of length and 1/2" intervals of width for each length.  Its extremely impractical.  Molded boards like those out of Thailand would become even more expensive.  In fact, all boards would become much more expensive, as lower volumes of each size would be sold.

It'd be great for the custom shops/shapers though.

From a pure racing standpoint, it'd be better, as you say.  From a retail perspective, it'd be a disaster.

Yes, from a retail perspective it would be daunting.  Anymore so than what the bike retailers are going through with wheel sizes?  26", 650b, 29" etc etc etc....
I know  a couple small brick and mortar shops in my town that have mixed feelings in this regard.  

Whatever.  It was only 5 years ago that a local paddling retailer around my area laughed when I came in to order a "new" SUP paddle when Werner first produced one. " No way in hell would paddle boards ever be taking up floor space.- like anyone would want one of those"............same place last year sold over 150 boards....

[pdxmike]

I don't think the industry wants limits removed.  Its nice and easy dealing with 12-6 as the default class.  Instead of carrying 2 sizes, shops will have to carry 52 sizes, at 3 inch intervals of length and 1/2" intervals of width for each length.  Its extremely impractical.  Molded boards like those out of Thailand would become even more expensive.  In fact, all boards would become much more expensive, as lower volumes of each size would be sold.

It'd be great for the custom shops/shapers though.

From a pure racing standpoint, it'd be better, as you say.  From a retail perspective, it'd be a disaster.

I see your point, but I think it's a bit exaggerated.  Right now, how many production UL boards are there?  The 17' Naish?  I think there's a market for UL boards if there were ones available, and if races allowed them.  An UL flatwater board would be a blast for me as an everyday board on the river.  I think of how 14' boards were unusual only 3 or 4 years ago, and now they're the default over-50 board, and several races are making 14' the elite class instead of 12-6.  Going beyond 14' is a natural progression for me and many people, just as going from 12-6 to 14 was, although obviously cost and practicality will limit the market.  

So I don't see a need for a million sizes of boards beyond 14'.  If several manufacturers each had only one UL board, that would be plenty of choice for most people.  A 17' board is so different than a 14 that there's no need to offer it in multiple widths, or 10 more length variations.  

I think the inflatable market is an example. There used to be one or two.  Now there are several, but still each manufacturer doesn't have much of a range of them.  The range can develop as they become more popular.  

Even the 14' market is an example.  I just was posting elsewhere how the Naish race series only about 3 or 4 years ago didn't allow 14s, and at the time they didn't even offer a 14' flatwater race board.  Now Naish sells multiple versions of them.  Same with Bark and many others. 

[SUPJorge]

+1. As regards the structure of the retail industry, I think some lessons can be drawn from high-end road bikes. The overwhelming majority of people can find suitable frames within the range of standard sizes offered by most manufacturers, supporting a robust industry, but larger individuals and others with special sizing needs support a group of custom manufacturers. Same thing should evolve here. I would further submit that the proper fit of a racing bicycle to its rider is analogous to a paddler and his board. There are important consideration in that fit that impact the rider/paddler's efficiency and help minimize competitive disadvantages that larger competitors have over smaller ones. And, of course, once on the start line, all bicycles are treated equally.

[PonoBill]

My underlying point is to let the market set the sizes rather than having an arbitrary number imposed on an evolving sport. Why 14? Or really, really why 12'6". I know the genesis of the decisions, but that's just an interesting history, not a reason.

I think if elite racers aren't forced into the 12'6" class then it will die very quickly, and few will mourn. Most racers will find something that works very well for them in the 14 to 17' range, and the big guys might be at 19', but that's probably the max just because of hull friction unless boards somehow go super narrow.

Unlimiteds rule in the open ocean and channel crossings. The best paddlers win those races. Isn't that the idea?

[LaPerouseBay]

Is there a retail disaster in the OC and surfski industries?

I dunno, let me run down to my local OC/Surfski shop and ask...oh wait, nm, there isn't one.

raf, I wish I lived as close as you do to Ted Van Dusen.  Legendary innovator in design and engineering - canoes, sculls, skis, K-1's, etc.  His shop is world famous in the paddling industry.

I've seen big changes in ski and outrigger in the past 2 years.  China has allowed them to roll out new models inexpensively.  Asia is damn good at composite engineering and getting better all the time.  We already have boats so light that paddlers say they are TOO light.  That trend won't stop.  Light, strong and cheap is just as good in boats as it is in boards.         

Epic kayaks has rolled out 5 new ski designs in the past year.  The outrigger scene is just as dynamic.  It's changing so fast that to sit back now would be certain death. 

Just thought I'd toss that in so nobody claims that boats have reached any sort of limit to design or manufacturing.  Quite the contrary.  It's going through a revolution.  It was closer to 'one size fits all' because of labor, but those days are long gone.

IMO, standup paddlers would be wise to force the industry to drop the length requirements.  Let competition drive the industry.  It's working  very well for the consumer in boats. 

[FB1]

I would like to see 2 classes, 4 meters and under (stock class: with similar hull restrictions to the current 12'6" and 14' WPA race specs), and over 4 meters (open race class: being similar "in nature" to the current WPA Unlimited race specs).

[pdxmike]

My underlying point is to let the market set the sizes rather than having an arbitrary number imposed on an evolving sport. Why 14? Or really, really why 12'6". I know the genesis of the decisions, but that's just an interesting history, not a reason.

I think if elite racers aren't forced into the 12'6" class then it will die very quickly, and few will mourn. Most racers will find something that works very well for them in the 14 to 17' range, and the big guys might be at 19', but that's probably the max just because of hull friction unless boards somehow go super narrow.

Unlimiteds rule in the open ocean and channel crossings. The best paddlers win those races. Isn't that the idea?

I agree with everything you're saying, esp. about the 12-6 class potentially dying.  It will be interesting to see the SUP Cup this weekend, but the trend certainly has been for people to start in the 12-6 class, then move to 14.  The 12-6 class has started to seem like it's filled with 1) women (not that many of them wouldn't prefer 14, just that many races don't let them race 14s, and even when they do, women will go 12-6 to be more likely to be in the same class as their peers), 2) newer racers and 3) the really fast guy with the red board from Seattle, plus a couple others who just prefer 12-6 for whatever reason. 

So even on it's own, while elites are still shoehorned onto 12-6s in many races, there's a lot of movement to 14s.  With the new light, narrow 14s coming out, I think a lot of women will also switch.

I'd love to see divisions that are focused more on age and gender than on board length. 

[PonoBill]

If I get off my ass, stop complaining and DO something, any race I'd organize would have three board classes -- surfboard, race, and experimental. Experimental would be wide open: Hydrofoils, gyros, multihulls, whatever. No restrictions other than you have to stand up. Race is any length or width, monohull, no foils. Surfboard is a production surf board up to 12'6".

Divisions would be age and gender. An awards ceremony like the MCKC -- lots of cheap medals given to each age and gender division with aloha and the cheers of your friends and peers. Trophy for the fastest male and female no matter what they paddle.  Elites run in the race class.

Draft anyone you like.