Author Topic: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?  (Read 50668 times)

Strand Leper

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Okay, so we have a few different versions from infinity... Same from L41...  a couple from Corran, Gong has some Simmons inspired stuff in production... That's all good and interesting, but as with my skinnies, where do we go from here?

I have had the Corran take on the mini Simmons idea (as you might know, I call it the TimSUP) out in just about every condition imaginable under double overhead.  0-1 and high tide, 1-3 and low tide, beach break, reef break, point break, 3-5 and lumpy reef, 3-5+ and slight offshore and racey...

My impression is that the board works in every condition... But over four feet and racey is not the board's strong suit.  Yes, it works, but it is not where it EXCELS IMHO. Why? For the same reasons that it excels in lower energy situations.  Tail width and to a certain extent rail bulk.

Typical scenario: 8 foot face that you are backdooring... You drop in and are on your inside rail, as you race past the pocket you want to do a snap turn in the pocket... Well you have to do one of two things, shift your rear foot to the other rail so you can bury the rail to keep your line, or keep your foot relatively close to where it is, and make a flat "fin push" turn... But that is going to break your fins loose and you will be doing a controlled slide into the turn rather than a carve... You will lose speed and a little bit of control.

If that same scenario involved the Mach 1 by Corran or the Mach Bobby Roger by Roger Hinds, you would not have to worry about your rear foot and could choose the type of turn that you want to execute based on what the wave is throwing at you... Rather than on where your rear feet are.

I have found that right about five foot plus faces is the point where I would prefer the precision of the skinny board over the speed and fun of the wider Simmons inspired design.  I think it is because the speed of the wave diminishes the reaction time necessary to milk the most out of the Simmons inspired design.

As I am so very sold on this type of design, however, I am pushing the investment one board deeper into the Simmons inspired design realm.  The asymmetrical step up with a slightly narower tail.  Of course, go too narrow and you have defeated the whole purpose.  7'8" by 28 by 4+, but pulling in the tail and making it asymmetrical. Yes, Corran is shaping it for me.  I am going step up volume at 110 liters... the biggest board i have ordered in years... but it is a step up... double O faces, or crazy chop... i think the Assym tail will allow more of a skinny board feel in the pocket without losing too much of the amazing blazing speed of the mini Simmons.

Time and surf will tell.  Given that Corran decided to name the TimSUP the "Retro," I am thinking that he won't go with TimAsSUP... Or AssTimSUP... Or SUPTimASS... Or anything like that... If I were a betting man, I would think that he is going with the Assymetrical Retro.

So what do you guys think... Where do we go from here?

SL
American Saltwater Angler Magazine's Seven Time Angler of the Year.* Founder and former CEO of "Fishstrong" an organization devoted to the fight against fishbait-hands-smell discrimination.

* subject to revocation due to a pending investigation by the FDA (fisherman drug association)

TallDude

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 09:56:41 PM »
SL, You're asking everyone reeling in your wake. Honestly, we are lucky to have someone like yourself facilitating the evolution of SUP design. Chelu told me one time that you are one of the main R&D / Testing departments for our local SUP industry. I'm with you on the narrower tail. I like to go rail to rail, and the wider the tail, less I feel control backside. When I have to move my back foot, a whole foot to get a hard bottom turn backside, and then slide it back up the face. I'm not digg'in it that much... Or maybe I just need to try harder! Time and surf always does tell.......
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

supdiscobay

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 10:13:14 PM »
Tim,
I think as a few shapers have done for years, shaping boards that perform to the limits they were thought to be designed for and then modifying those designs to suit the wave, rider and conditions.  Forums like this, with the input from all those surfers and paddlers that are ordering boards, can push the limit every month.  Look what you and the other progressive buyers/designers have accomplished since the discussion of the simmons design started.  
Before my 3 boys got into swimming/water polo/soccer and every other sport that took up my weekends and eventually my life, I windsurfed 4-5 days a week, Rio Vista, San Mateo Bridge, Oneill Forebay, Waddel Creek, the gorge.  You name it I sailed it.  In the end riding waves became the addiction within the addiction.  The board I sailed the most was an 8'2" custom, can opener.  Which was an 8'2" on one side and a 7'2" on the other.  Modifications to that board lead to my 8'4", which was not quite the can opener my shorter board was, and finally my last custom (before I had no time or money to sail) was an asymmetrical that was hard to tell.  Half the board was 8'6" gun and the other half was an 8'6" wide speed egg.  For me thats what I thought worked and of course some of that credit goes to Steve Colletta.  Well 25 years later looks like I am going to start the process all over again.  
Where do we go from here?
The progression has to be a personal one.  We see it already on this forum.  Two paddlers the same size, one wants stability, another versatility and then another performance.
You continue to develop what works for you in your conditions and share that so that others can follow the same path.  Some push the limits and others follow.  I appreciate the ones who have invested time and money, figuring out what works and what doesn't and sharing that with their shapers and us.
As someone who surfs mainly rights, an asymmetrical is the logical base design for an SUS board. 
Thanks to all who are pushing that limit and then going beyond.
8'5" Starboard Pocket Rocket, 8'0" Kazuma Fugu custom,  8'10" Kings Sidewinder, 10' Starboard Noserider, 14' BARK Carbon Dominator, SIC F16 V3, KeNalu and Quickblade paddles, 19' Eaton Prone, 67" Goode 9700

AJR

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Re: Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 06:29:42 AM »
Compromise with him - RetroAss?

Does seem like asymm is one of the next frontiers - Infinity, Blane, & L41 are doing them now.  What about the pickle fork boards?  Guy around here has them made in Hawaii and says they're fast...

I personally hope all this innovation stops - maybe i won't want new boards each year because I'm running out of stuff to sell...  ;D

Strand Leper

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 07:04:39 AM »
Aaah the Gemini aka pickle fork. I talked to John lalane last year about making one... But it never happened as I am moving away from the single concave release. I have two lay down pickle forks shaped by the legend Jeff Alexander... The original pickle fork proponent.  John lalane (la la surfboards) makes them now that Jeff Alexander is (I think) living in Bali.

So probably not going pickle fork.  At least not me.

SL
American Saltwater Angler Magazine's Seven Time Angler of the Year.* Founder and former CEO of "Fishstrong" an organization devoted to the fight against fishbait-hands-smell discrimination.

* subject to revocation due to a pending investigation by the FDA (fisherman drug association)

supstoked

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 07:17:52 AM »
So far, being involved in the evolution of SUP for the past seven years has been a wild ride.  I went through the shortboard revolution in the sixties and this has been a similar progression.  If, only a year ago, someone would have told me that I would be riding a 7'4" (and loving it), I would have thought them crazy.  I often switch boards with people in the water and let them try my board.  The are always skeptical, but always come away wanting one.  Thanks Strand Leper for pushing us forward, although you are straining my wallet.
Lots of foil boards 6’7”-7’4”, L41 TVD’s and Jimmy Lewis Strikers..

sup_surf_giant

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 07:20:25 AM »
Tim, I'm trying to figure this out with you on my next build.

The fun part is seeing what works!
Taller than most, shorter than others.

SoCalSupper

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 07:47:31 AM »
the asym is obviously a very niche board in a very niche small sup surf craft market-that being said-love me some niche.
think for now im gonna stick with my Infinity V3 that i should be getting next week.
Dave made a sick lookin asym i think for Chill out in the carolinas, and i think Giant is gettin one-but im gonna hold off until i master the V3.
They are just so friggin cool looking too. Would love to post a pic but thats frowned upon around these parts lately ???

Honestly i think my next board after the Infinity V3 is a big, wide, long fun cruiser-ive gotten away from this the last few years and its time to get back out to those fun outer reefs and get some nose time and glide time in....

United States Air Force Para-Rescue motto "That others may live"

AJR

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the asym is obviously a very niche board in a very niche small sup surf craft market-that being said-love me some niche.
think for now im gonna stick with my Infinity V3 that i should be getting next week.
Dave made a sick lookin asym i think for Chill out in the carolinas, and i think Giant is gettin one-but im gonna hold off until i master the V3.
They are just so friggin cool looking too. Would love to post a pic but thats frowned upon around these parts lately ???

Honestly i think my next board after the Infinity V3 is a big, wide, long fun cruiser-ive gotten away from this the last few years and its time to get back out to those fun outer reefs and get some nose time and glide time in....

If i held off until i mastered a board I'd still be on my first one!

raf

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 08:49:06 AM »
My Asym is being glassed this very moment.  May have it in the water by next weekend!  Very similar dims to SLs: 7'10"/8"2 x 28" x 4".

Asyms just make too much sense for folks who go custom not to have at least one.  I wouldn't call them a "category" as I would for guns, sims, fish, etc. as they can and should incorporate elements of all those depending on the rider/conditions they are built for.  Asyms are more like tailored suits; they should work better for you then anyone else, addressing both your strengths AND weaknesses.

JeanG

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 10:08:17 AM »
The nice thing about the pickle fork is that everyone in your path clears the way a big quicker than normal:


jd

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2013, 12:09:52 PM »
Where to go?  Just to straight to the highest performance Simmons type shapes to date.  Strip off all the unnecessary bits to get the smallest board possible.



Fark

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 12:44:40 PM »
Te layout that I've seen on those tomo boards looks similar to the simsups we've seen on here, minus the shape.  If you could find a shaper that was willing to blow that up for SUP, I think it would rock.  You may be able to go wicked small and still get he stability out of it.  Wish I had more expendable income.

supthecreek

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 02:19:57 PM »
TimSUPAsylum ? it's descriptive in many ways ;D

I flat-water on my surf SUP all the time.
I can't help but notice that almost 1 foot of my nose is out of the water at all times...
if I sawed it off... it would paddle exactly the same... hummm....it would share nose design features of the Tomo.  ;)

Tim... I have not seen or ridden a SimSUP... just following the developments. Question:
What would it do to the SimSUP performance to quickly draw the tail in for the last 12" of the tail ?

My Allwave is 32" wide and carries width all the way from nose to tail... that's why I love it... super stable.... like a SimSUP
However... the last bit of the tail draws in to create a 7" swallowtail, so you can surf it from a fixed stance, and it holds well in bigger surf. Is that an option for a modified Simmons? Probably been done, but I missed it?

I'd love to recreate my board... thinned out in nose, tail and S-railed... and crop the nose by 10"... or just but a SimSUP ;D

Strand Leper

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Re: The Simmons inspired SUP progression... Where do we go from here?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 08:36:48 PM »
Creek,

A very significant aspect of the liveliness of the board is due to the wide tail as you know...

I think that going for a "stinger" would be intriguing on a SimSUP... But I am not a fan of wings and bumps generally as they break the flow of the rail line. 

It might be a fun idea...

That FireWire that JD posted looks like it has a massive single concave channel running off the back... IMHO single concaves are great for speed and power turns... And riding reef breaks due to the trackiness and speed... They are just too sticky in the pocket for me due to the twil width of the SUP. On my Mach Bobby Roger (vee) if I so much as wiggle a toe, I am turning or shifting.

Anyway, this thread isn't necessarily about assyms... I just wanted to start another thread for what everyone is doing with their Simmons styled boards... Where are we going?  If you are going standard... Post it up!
American Saltwater Angler Magazine's Seven Time Angler of the Year.* Founder and former CEO of "Fishstrong" an organization devoted to the fight against fishbait-hands-smell discrimination.

* subject to revocation due to a pending investigation by the FDA (fisherman drug association)

 


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