"Quick Shift" from Quickblade - Choking Down on the Paddle

[DavidJohn]

Maybe one day we will see a button in the center of the T grip that alowes the paddler to raise and lower the T grip a few inches while paddling.

I'm sure Pono's been thinking about this.

DJ

[hbsteve]

Here is pic of Annabel Anderson using thumb down.  Since Sam1 is new to posting, she wins lots of races.  Pic was original posted by SUPracer.

[johnrg]

Here is pic of Annabel Anderson using thumb down.  Since Sam1 is new to posting, she wins lots of races.  Pic was original posted by SUPracer.

Looks like a natural progression for those who kayak with that grip. With every fast paddler, past assumptions seem to go out the window re: technique. Whatever works for the fast ones becomes more accepted.

[PonoBill]

...Ultimately though, like a car steering wheel, bicycle wheel, etc... I want self centering paddles, so there is no twist, smacking rails etc... .

I think self centering is the key to making this grip work, but it takes practice and the right handle design to take advantage of it. In the choked position you tend to have your hand closed tightly to prevent slipping on the shaft. If you hold the shaft tightly you'll be fighting a self-centering paddle, That's why I was working on the sliding grip--because I wanted a choked down grip that I could apply power to without holding the shaft tightly. I used the base of a guard-style ski pole for the bottom edge of the grip so it could be paddled open-handed.

Then I started  playing with a reversed upper hand like the kayak grip Sam1 is talking about and that all went out the window. It is a more efficient choked grip IMO and doesn't need as aggressive a stop to keep from slipping as the thumb-up grip does. In fact you can't use one--it gets in the way. Instead I just used a kayak drip guard with some hockey tape wrapped below it as a stop. Works well.

[pdxmike]

I wonder how many sports you could build into one paddle grip. 

[NoSaltSuper]

This thumbs down on the top hand technique also seems to be a better use of muscles.

Top hand thumb down would engage the tricep, more suited to pushing. Where the thumb up top hand would require a bicep extension, less powerful, IMO. Biceps are better at curling, triceps at pushing.

Also seems like you engage more of your hand/palm with the thumb down.

Can't wait to try this. Amazing how simple this sport looks, until you dig a little deeper.

[johnrg]

Bearings in the frog ;-) Self centering paddle and grip it any way you like. Stick it in the water and it aligns to the direction of pull. Now no fancy strokes or steering at the bow would work but might be entertaining to prototype.

[Sam1]

Thanks Hbsteve for posting for me the picture of Annabel Anderson. Growing up in Israel paddling with the thumb down, was a natural prorogation of integrating the benefits of the "Hasake" standing up double- blade paddling technique into the clear advantages of using a one blade paddle on a SUP. I like Ponobill kayak drip guard solution and will try it on. This is a great SUP community, every time I enter this forum I learn something new!      

[SUPlime]

Thumbs up on thumb down. Feels much more natural to me and was the way I did it before I knew you were "supposed" to do it thumb up.

[pdxmike]

Thumb down looked scary to me from the photo.  Seemed like it requires rotating your shoulder in the socket before applying force, and a good way to wipe out your shoulder joint.  Then I just tried it on land, and it seems like if you get your shoulders stacked, it may really not put any more strain on your top shoulder--or maybe even less?--than thumb up.   But if you tried it without stacking your shoulders, and just reached across with your top arm, you'd be doomed.   Also, it seems like you'd want to be sure to be paddling by moving your trunk, so your arm isn't really moving a lot relative to your shoulder.

I'm looking forward to trying it on the water.  Sounds like people who've tried it like it.

I know so many swimmers with bad shoulders, I'm cautious about anything that might require you to apply force when your shoulder joint isn't in it's neutral position, esp. when repeating it thousands of times over and over for years. 

[LaPerouseBay]

Thumb down looked scary to me from the photo. /

Her paddle is a long way from the water.  She's just winding up.

If I had to choose thumbs up or down, I'd emulate the ladies.  Ladies rotate well as beginners.  With that foundation, they just fine tune the balance and timing to go faster. 

[pdxmike]

LPB--that's a good video.  Her upper elbow does go pretty high, although not as high as Anabel's, and it looks like Anabel's might go higher during part of her stroke.  I remember a short Danny Ching video about avoiding shoulder trouble, and one of his recommendations was to keep your elbow low, since the higher it goes, the more likely you are to be needing to rotate your arm within your shoulder joint, and the more rotated the joint is when you apply power, the harder it is on your shoulder.  (The woman in your video also looks like she's keeping her elbows low.)

But like I said, I was surprised when I tried the thumb-down grip on land, in regard to it seeming to require no shoulder rotation than the thumb-up grip, and it also seemed like it can give you more control over the paddle without a tight grip, compared to the thumb-up grip.  So I'm excited about trying it out, and more so after watching that video.  

[johnrg]

Just tried the thumbs down method and it felt OK and more stable but defintely need to stretch certain arm muscles to be effective and did note some shoulder issue with the elbow up so much. Never had a sup related shoulder issue so this method isn't going to work for all.

[Argosi]

For those looking for less paddle flutter and the ability to use a loose grip when choking down, just try a bent shaft paddle!

When I choke down on the shaft (thumbs down always), I find I get too much flutter with a straight shaft paddle since I don't like to grip my top hand tightly. I gave up on the choke grip until I tried it with a Werner bent shaft paddle. Huge difference - the choke grip now becomes very usable for me, even with a relatively loose top hand grip.

Having the lower hand "ahead" of the plane of the paddle blade during the stroke stabilizes the blade as it moves through the water.

There are some things I don't like about my Werner bent shaft paddle but the flutter reduction and more ergonomic wrist position in the bottom hand are worth any trade-offs for me.

It's important to get the shaft bend in the right position otherwise, your lower hand doesn't benefit fully from the bent shaft. Werner messed up with their first gen bent shaft paddles because the bend was too low (particularly for shorter paddlers) but apparently fixed this with their newer Grand Prix bent shaft paddles. I had to buy a longer paddle (Nitro) and cut it down at the top to get the bend in the right place for me.

[Chilly]

Conner doesn’t use thumb up or thumb down. He places the shaft between his index and middle finger. For me it’s the most natural hand position, but everyone is different so there is no right or wrong way.