Author Topic: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability  (Read 11344 times)

VOSup

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Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« on: February 24, 2013, 09:33:51 PM »
Hi guys,

While on a lookout for a 11' "all around" board and various trials to broaden my frame of reference, I decided to try Riviera 404 12'6x28.5" Monster. I found this board to be very unstable to me. Also, it seemed that I was standing high above the water. I also tried a Coreban Performer 9'6"x29.5", which was very manageable in side-to-side stability. 

Why is the Riviera so much more unstable at 28.5" width while the Coreban felt quite manageable at 29.5" (only an inch wider but also 2 feet shorter)? Is the stability of the Riviera something that you grow into over time and therefore the board is worth buying and going through the initial struggles? Also, is the Riviera a board that you would recommend for "all around" flatwater/ocean paddling?

Here's my experience as a background info: I've been paddling 3-4 times/week for about 6 months on a 10'x32" Naish Mana and I'm 5'10" @ 190 lbs.

Thank you

TallDude

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2013, 10:40:59 PM »
Your talking about boards designed for different uses. The board you're used to is where most people start paddling. The Mana very wide and stable. Even more so with your weight and height. The Mana and most other all a rounders, have a relativity flat bottom and a decent amount of rocker, which makes for a very stable board. Now your hooked! (welcome to our world) You need to take the next step, which is getting a board more specific to your use. Are you planning to do primarily distance? If so, you want to look at a 12'6 race (narrower and lighter) or touring (wider and a little slower) board. These boards typically have a displacement (canoe type) of nose and very little rocker. The sharp pointed nose parts the water and holds a straighter line. These boards will be tippy compared to an all a rounder. You will get your sea legs the more you paddle, and do just fine on a narrower race board. Now if you plan on paddle surfing or SUSing (stand up surfing) as we refer to it, then a board like the Coreban performer would be the way to go. It's not designed to paddle any distance. It's has a planing hull, and lots of rocker, so it can turn fast on a wave. So which is it? Or like a lot of us, BOTH! more boards........    
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 10:42:34 PM by TallDude »
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8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

VOSup

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2013, 10:59:33 PM »
TallDude, thank you for your reply. I would like to get into stand up surfing with time and for that I will keep the Mana. I would also like to get another board which would glide better than the Mana and would allow me to cover more distance. Initially, I was thinking about getting a bigger "all arounder" but am now realizing I should just get a second board geared more toward ocean and flatwater paddling. This is the reason I looked at the 404 12'6.

Having said that, shall I progress to a 30 inch wide board before going to something like the 28 inch of the 404 (if I were to end up with that board) or shall I just go to a 28 inch kinda board and practice on that in calmer waters first?

Thank you

TallDude

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2013, 11:22:55 PM »
Don't fear getting wet. You want a faster board, you will get wet more often. At your height and weight, 28" is fine. Personally, I think the 404 monster is a dog. Demo a lot of boards before you buy. Get something light too. Carbon is good on race boards. Infinity has some great boards. I'm 6'7, 230# and I paddle a 25"w x 18' board.   
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

JimK

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 07:38:14 AM »
VoSUP

Try a Fanatic Ray or a Fanatic 12'6 Falcon 30" wide you'll love them and they are fast and fun

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com

VOSup

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 07:43:37 AM »
Hi guys and thank you for your responses.

@TallDude: why, in your opinion, is the 404 12'6" Monster a dog?

@JimK: where can I get Fanatics in the US?

Thank you

DESUP

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 09:23:50 AM »
Hi guys and thank you for your responses.

@TallDude: why, in your opinion, is the 404 12'6" Monster a dog?

@JimK: where can I get Fanatics in the US?

Thank you
JimK sells Fanatics in NJ I believe. You can find them in Delaware at Delmarva Board Sports, and a bunch of shops in Florida that I know of. My experience on the 404 Monster was that it was pretty stable but like someone mentioned above I did not find it very fast at all.

TallDude

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 09:37:33 AM »
The 404 monster was not designed as a distance board. It was designed for the BOP type of race where you are constantly going in and out of the surf, and making buoy turns in chopped up water. The surf at the BOP one year was 4 to 5' high. Try making a buoy turn right in the middle of a wave with 10 other people sharing the wave and trying to crowd the buoy as well. With those conditions you need a race board that can surf (more rocker, higher standing surface, and harder rails which for distance slows the board down). To make pivot turns around multiple buoys in choppy conditions, you need a wider tail (which causes drag on distance boards). There is a lot of disagreement about wider, squared off tail, so I will just agree to disagree ahead of time. I would look into other lighter boards with lower standing area and softer rails. If you really want to do serious distance (8 to 10 miles for your regular paddle), look into a 14' board with a narrower tail.   check this out http://www.infinitysurf.com/sup/ocean-racer/
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 09:43:29 AM by TallDude »
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

corlot

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 11:36:45 AM »
I have to 100% agree with Talldude on the 404. I bought one for my wife (hollow version) and was disapointed in performance on flat water. We do not have real "bop" style races where I live. We did some timing and it seemed she was faster on her older 12 Glide in flat water. I have paddled the 404 in waves and it felt great. In my opinion, Talldude is spot on when talking about round rails for flat etc..

VOSup

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 12:20:52 PM »
Thank you guys,

Is the consensus then that the 404 12'6" Monster is a good/decent board for paddling in choppy ocean conditions? I understand that there might be better but I'm also somewhat limited by prices. I'd like to get a couple of boards (wife, etc.) so I'm primarily looking at used boards at the moment.

Thank you

TallDude

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 01:01:21 PM »
I would think the 404 monster would be a better distance ocean paddling board than any planing hull all a rounder.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

moogie

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 01:13:17 PM »
Hey VOSup.  PMed you. 

TN_SUP

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 01:29:08 PM »
The 404 initial stability is deceiving. I thought it was tippy until I tried to go over on purpose - the secondary stability is so strong its actually difficult to tip. Agree that flatwater speed is disappointing, but it's "fun" to paddle and great on rough water. I only take mine out on really windy days. Ninja fin improves the board. Also, there are some that think the hollow version like mine is too flexy for larger paddlers. Think under 180 lbs is recommended.
'13 SB Sprint, '15 SIC X-14 ProLite, RH Coastal Cruiser, Think EZE Ski, Kenalu Konihi 84  & Mana

corlot

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 08:28:13 PM »
TN Sup,

Interested in hearing about how you like the Sprint? Did you get the 14 or 12,6?

Thanks,
Corey

TN_SUP

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Re: Riviera 404 12'6 Monster stability
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 05:39:25 AM »
Hey Corey, I have the 12'6 Sprint in carbon (+$1k), which I regret because the board is sooo much smaller than other boards that it would be very light in AST too just due to its size - it's a dwarf. I wanted a 12'6 that would be as fast as a 14' for a lighter rider, and that's what I got! It's like going from a mountainbike to a time trial road bike - every ounce of energy is translated to forward momentum, provides instant feedback on your paddle stroke. Seems to push a lot of water despite its rocker but I'm used to the knife nose of the Fanatic Fly. Because the back end is open, you must start as forward as possible to keep water out until you get enough speed to step back and trim the board. Yeah, it's tippy and still requires my full concentration while paddling. And you must keep paddling, as slowing down or stopping, especially pointed downwind, will flood and sink the board. I like to stop and kneel to rest and stretch, which is very difficult to do on this board without flooding it - not a board to get stuck in bad conditions, can't Pohantas it. (I'm 6', 160#) I was tired of dealers steering me towards an "all 'round or versatile board and am happy to have the Sprint, a fast flatwater point A to B board that will have you grinning in amazement as you cover more miles with much less effort - not for a casual paddle. Right now my average speed on Sprint over 4-5 miles is same as 14' Fanatic (~4.4mph), but can't match fanatics top speed (still easy to get Sprint to 6mph). I'm likely below average compared to most board members, but slowly maintaining 5 mph for longer durations as I improve. Still can't get over how small this board is. 404 looks like a monster next to it. Oh, I've been using a Ninja fin, just received Starboard 24cm yesterday (it was missing).
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 06:14:32 AM by TN_SUP »
'13 SB Sprint, '15 SIC X-14 ProLite, RH Coastal Cruiser, Think EZE Ski, Kenalu Konihi 84  & Mana

 


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