A Tale of Three SIMsups

[kneecap]

As someone who is seriously considering adding a SIMsup of some sort to my collection of boards, I was extremely fortunate to try three different shapers' versions over a two day period this past weekend .  Though the waves weren't the same both days, and one of the boards was quite a bit larger than the other two, I think I got a pretty good read on all three and it's definitely helped me in what the right direction will be for me.

The first one I tried was Boludo's L41 S4.  It's 7'3" and 28.5" wide (I think) and 96.5L volume.  Conditions were head high reef break pretty glassy.  One thing I noticed about this board right away is that when it accelerates as it catches a wave it comes out of the water like a boat planing.  It's super loose and feels really skatey on the wave.  And talk about fast!  I laid into it backside on a steep left and the fins just started humming and I was going so fast instantly.  It really accelerated through turns.  Most everything I did on it was done at silly high speed and really round carvy stuff.  On my best wave, I did a nice round cutback, cross-stepped into a cheater 5, then backed up and hit the end section.  Good stuff.  Paddling was really easy though I yawed out of a few waves as my pivot turn timing was off a little bit due to the short length.  Easily fixable with more practice.  The deck is so flat and comfortable it almost feels concave after the heavy domes I've been surfing on.  A real eye opener.

Early the next morning I got a crack at the Timsup by Corran.  It's also 7'3" x28" and 98L.  Conditions were half the size and really mushy with the bogged down high tide.  Strong offshores and backwash.  Not ideal at all.  Like the L41, once it catches a wave it's really moving, even if the wave isn't.  The nose (bow?) doesn't lift like the L41.  Both Corran and Dave Daum use a single concave nose instead of the belly nose.  They're going for riding a cushion of air for lift.  It's a little more familiar feeling to me, but I did like the lift from the belly nose a lot as well.  The deck is domed either by Tim's desire or Corran's.  Every board I've ridden by Corran is quite domed which really tapers down the rails.  This board felt a little more wobbly to paddle but nothing compared to the Mach 1.  Totally doable.  The biggest difference I noticed between the Timsup and L41 was probably due to rail pinch.  The Timsup grabbed and snapped a little better than the L41.  Might have been because I wasn't going as fast but I don't think so.  It was just easier to sink a rail which suits my surfing very well.

At the end of the morning I grabbed a couple waves on the Kings Simmons-ish board.  This one was way longer than the other two at about 8'.  I didn't get any other dims but I'm sure it was well over 100L.  Again, talk about fun!  Catches waves like crazy, accelerates into them really easily and carries a lot of speed.  This one didn't want to cutback as hard as the other two, but it was 9" longer so that probably had a lot to do with it.  The deck was realy flat like the L41 but had step rails.  Cushy as could be to paddle it.  When I talked to Dave after I rode it I described it as "the grooviest of the three."  If I was surfing in the Morning of the Earth and had perfect Kirra and Burleigh at my disposal and was charging along with Michael Peterson, I could think of no better sourfboard.  Poppy, JeanG, and StandingDan all have a lot more experience with these Kings than I do and very well may have figured out how to get them wrapping around and I'd love to hear more from them on the topic.  I also think that I would have been more successful on a smaller model.

Bottom Line:  All three of these Simmons-inspired shapes are ridiculously fun.  I would imagine that the Infinity falls right in with them and I can't wait til SoCal puts the first ding in his so I can try it too.  There's a ton of speed and fun to be had on them with just subtle differences between each ride.  I'd also imagine that we can all go shorter than we'd normally feel comfortable with and be just fine.  I was freaking out about getting on anything smaller than 7'6", but the two 7'3"s I rode were fine.  I'll still probably go 7'4"-7'5" just to get a touch more volume.  The biggest thing I got out of this test drive is that I wouldn't go wrong with any of these shapers making one of these boards for me which is a huge relief as I stress out about getting a bad board.

[SoCalSupper]

great write up 10&2!

bottom line is you can go shorter than you think and between L41-Corran-Kings-Infinity-Chelu- youre gonna get a board you love.

i cant hardly stand all this waiting...

[Fark]

Nice piece on the boards.  Way to drop some country soul in there with the morning of the earth.

[skibike]

Kneecap - I believe you we're riding Dans Simmons which is 7'8" x 28 x 3'7/8. So only 5 inches longer. I believe Dan and Dave said it was just under 100l. This is what amazed me about the Kings as I was battling on Timsup stability wise, but felt really comfortable on the Kings and still cant believe it is a sub 100L board at all. The ease at which it caught waves and how those step rails work was incredible. I tried the 7'6 x 29 Kings Simmons without step rails and the 7'8" step rail board performed much better on the wave.

[Dwight (DW)]

Nice write-up.

I'm sold on them too. I've shaped two 7'4s. They made my 7'8 Dumpster Diver's obsolete.

[Boludo]

Good write up.  Thanks Knee!
That's great you got to ride all 3.  That's what's cool about these is they all have there tweaks and you get to decide which one fits you the best.  Can't wait to see SoCalSuppers no board in progress.

[lopezwill]

  Any body out there that weighs over 225 pounds that own a SIMSUP?  I don't want to be a buzzkill but a 7'8" by 28" by 3'7/8 will be a lot of work for a heavy weight in choppy seas.  At the end of the day even an 8 footer by 30 across will still be a lot of work for a heavyweight and take away from some of the fun.
 
  Where you surf has a lot to do with how much length and volume you need.  I don't know what the answer is yet?  I surf in an area with vodoo wind chop and long paddle outs through an open ocean beach break.  The wave has an inside break, no mans land and an outside break.

  Don't get me wrong...I'm sold on the SIMSUP design I have a 8"10" on order but your weight and where you surf the most should all be taken into consideration before you purchase the latest and greatest SIMSUP. I'll let you know how this works out after I get the new board and ride it for a while.  Nice write up kneecap...keep the reviews coming. 

[Utah SUPer]

Kneecap (or anybody else that knows),

Is the L41 the only board that has the deep "V" hull with double concave bottom towards the stern?  As far as I can tell, this feature was not on any Bob Simmons boards I have seen pictures of.  Who thought of this design and what does it do for the ride?

I am very interested in getting some sort of Simmons board.  Have you all seen this site?- pretty cool.

http://hydrodynamica.com/totem/index.php

[supthecreek]

Nice review kneecap!

Board reviews are the reason I came to the Zone in the first place.... they are wicked helpful... especially if you get to ride cutting edge stuff like the SimSUPs... Thanks so much for an honest comp of all 3.

Nice to see Tim's picture thread to punctuate your words.

[Ake G]

Thanks for the excellent side-by-side review,Kneecap!

Will, I am 225 with 5/4 wetsuit and yes, my 8'2"x 32"x 4 3/4" L41 Simsup can indeed be a chore in heavy chop/confused seas or winds in the high teens to low 20's = poor conditions. There's just not a big enough sweet spot on the board for me to have much margin for error surfing (or paddling) in tough conditions.

That being said, for it's length the stability and glide is very good and after over a year with this board as an (almost) 50 year old average sup surfer skill-wise, I have just barely scratched the surface on its performance.

Now my 8'2" Simsup is truly a blast to surf and is a nice change of pace in cleaner conditions but If I were to get another Simsup-style board that better suits my ability and a wider range of everyday conditions would never go shorter than 8'6" and more likely agree with you and consider 8'10" (or longer) x 31" - 32" wide.



 

  Any body out there that weighs over 225 pounds that own a SIMSUP?  I don't want to be a buzzkill but a 7'8" by 28" by 3'7/8 will be a lot of work for a heavy weight in choppy seas.  At the end of the day even an 8 footer by 30 across will still be a lot of work for a heavyweight and take away from some of the fun.
 
  Where you surf has a lot to do with how much length and volume you need.  I don't know what the answer is yet?  I surf in an area with vodoo wind chop and long paddle outs through an open ocean beach break.  The wave has an inside break, no mans land and an outside break.

  Don't get me wrong...I'm sold on the SIMSUP design I have a 8"10" on order but your weight and where you surf the most should all be taken into consideration before you purchase the latest and greatest SIMSUP. I'll let you know how this works out after I get the new board and ride it for a while.  Nice write up kneecap...keep the reviews coming. 

[Dwight (DW)]

Kneecap (or anybody else that knows),

Is the L41 the only board that has the deep "V" hull with double concave bottom towards the stern?  As far as I can tell, this feature was not on any Bob Simmons boards I have seen pictures of.  Who thought of this design and what does it do for the ride?

I thought I read someplace the original Simmons did have a displacement entry bow. Maybe someone will prove me wrong. Either way, the displacement bow is not new. It's done to increase sub planing speed (paddle speed). Single concave is slower at sub planing speeds. Not an opinion, but a fact in boat design.

Props to Kirk for making his board not just go fast, but paddle fast too. I don't have the budget to build many boards, since they're just for me and the wife. I hedge my bets and just do a flat entry bow. Even flat paddles faster than single concave entry in my testing of identical shapes. Shaping is all about compromises. That is mine.

[Dwight (DW)]

  Any body out there that weighs over 225 pounds that own a SIMSUP?  I don't want to be a buzzkill but a 7'8" by 28" by 3'7/8 will be a lot of work for a heavy weight in choppy seas.  

I think we're just getting started on what these designs might evolve into. We could end up with a 7'6 x 34 for big guys and blow the doors off anything being done today. Anybody look at where windsurfers have gone. SHORT and WIDE smokes them all windsurfing. Long and narrow finishes last.

Local example....
Our hardest ripping local (a.k.a. Surf Machine) is only 175 lbs. His personal board is a 90 liter 7'8 x 28.5 Dumpster Diver. He thinks my 7'4 x 31.5 sim style board is the best he's ever ridden and wouldn't change a thing for himself. 110 liters and 31.5 wide, and it smokes his 28.5 wide board and he thinks it's ideal for him. Makes your head spin. Lots to learn yet for where these designs will go, especially for big guys.

[CHill]

I'm a real big guy at 6'4" 230 and am
riding a 7' 29" 4" Phoenix V2
What I've learned from Dave B is boards
that sit in or below the water a bit as
mine is not under water but water is on
the deck are more stable compared to
boards that have a lot of volume
Dave's reason makes sense when your in
the water your not a bobber being affected
by the surface chop as much

Just my opinion and so stoked to see
everyone fired up on these shapes
want to really have fun go get a prone
one stupid fast

CHill

[Dwight (DW)]

I'm a real big guy at 6'4" 230 and am
riding a 7' 29" 4" Phoenix V2
What I've learned from Dave B is boards
that sit in or below the water a bit as
mine is not under water but water is on
the deck are more stable compared to
boards that have a lot of volume
Dave's reason makes sense when your in
the water your not a bobber being affected
by the surface chop as much

Just my opinion and so stoked to see
everyone fired up on these shapes
want to really have fun go get a prone
one stupid fast

CHill

I agree 100%. I design my personal boards with deck flush with the water. Low CG = no shimmy shake in my legs.

But those dimensions you ride must include a helium core  

PS, when I ride boards with deck below the water (my wife's boards) I find myself more subject to falling from inlet currents or rip currents. The currents tend to pull on the rails more and mess with me.

[CHill]

As always DW your on top of it
I don't know how Dave B hid the stability
as when I got the board it kinda freaked
me out on how small it was but he has
a lot of talent both surfing and shaping
and has figured out how to keep them
stable yet low volume and low dims

CHill