What's the best Downwind Board at present?

[SJN]

I want to buy myself a board to train and race downwind. Not sure what to buy. What's everyone riding? What's the opinion on the C4 Vortice? Any advice would be muchly appreciated.

[DavidJohn]

You may not get an answer to that question..and that's maybe because there is no real answer..Just a few peoples opinions.
 
It depends on what size board you want..and what class you want to race in...BTW..I think everyone loves their C4 Vortice..I've not heard a bad word about them.

You also need to realize that the board is often only a very small part of what makes it fast..The person paddling it is maybe as much as 90% of the factor to its speed.

I've just ordered myself a new Naish 'Glide' because I don't want the hassle of a supa long board and like the fact that it's about 29" wide and very stable (so I've been told).

I'm happy to sacrifice a little top speed for the comfort and stability...and also the cheaper price.. 

It will be interesting to hear what the others have to say about this question of yours.. 

DJ

[motopilot]

DJS, I do not do a lot of downwind paddling on specific boards ( my biggest is a 10'6 PSH) but I have used both the C4 Vortice and the JL 12'6. 
The C4 was a great board.  It is fast easy to paddle.  I gues if you were going for distance or just for down winders I think that would be a great choice. 

I just did @ 30 miles on the Jimmy Lewis 12'6 over the past couple of days.  The board is stable (very stable)  but not very fast.  Was kind of disappointed for such a large board.  Tried different fins etc and still got the same feeling form it.  Upwind, downwind, flatwater, chop, I basically had it in everything the past 5 days.  Between those two I'd choose the C4.  Seems like the JL is more of a large all around board. 

DavidJohn, I would like to hear how you like the Naish as well.  I especailly would like to know the weight of it.  The JL just seemed to be really heavy as well.  Please post some detailed pics when you get it.

[Admin]

I want to buy myself a board to train and race downwind. Not sure what to buy. What's everyone riding? What's the opinion on the C4 Vortice? Any advice would be muchly appreciated.

Hey DJS,

Where are you, and what water condition do you usually see?

Also, your weight, height, etc.  will help.

You are about to have some big fun!!!!

[Admin]

Admin, I am 100kg's and 6'3". I am on the east coast of Australia an plan to race a few of the events around here. I have experience at racing OC1's in open ocean and would like to now try SUP. Looks like the C4 Vortice is the pick so far but am still interested in any opinions.

We will "make it our mission" to find you the best downwinder

Check out what Sam Pae experienced with the Vortice.  That board has had some strong race finishes but it has more rocker than many boards and a few riders over 200 lbs have commented that it bogs on the rocker for their weight.  Sam built himself a custom larger model that he is liking better.  http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1735.0  Possibly he will add in some thoughts for you.

I am no expert, but I have recently seen a 200 lb rider move up to a fuller 17 footer from a more standard 16 footer and consistantly shave 10 minutes off of his 9.5 mile course times overnight. 

At 220 lbs, you may be a candidate for a custom stick.   Possibly talk to SIC, Bark, Angulo, Richard Greene, Bill Fooote about Race boards for big guys.  Not sure if Penetrator in your area is a custom possibility or a molded deal. 

Best of luck!

[Sam Pa'e]

Aloha DJS,

We will "make it our mission" to find you the best downwinder

I will try to lighten up a bright picture for you on my experiences with the Vortice "BW"(boardworks), the Vortice "XP", and my Vortice "SP"

The C4 was a great board.  It is fast easy to paddle.  I guess if you were going for distance or just for down winders I think that would be a great choice.

VORTICE "BW" (Boardworks)
The Vortice "BW" is definitely a great board for you to start off on. It is very buoyant for a board that's 27 3/8" wide and at 5'-10" 225lb I've entered several long distance races and did fairly well. What I do like about this board is,..... if at times that if you do tend to lose your balance I find that this board will want to correct it self. Those deep double barrel really helps in the correction process. The weight of this board is 35lb.

The other side of this board.......It has a lot of rocker. It tend to "push" water rather then glide on it. Don't get me mistaken it is a good board in really big ocean swells, but if you plan on doing some down winder on small stuff then I suggest that you step further behind of this board. The "sweet spot" of this board needs to be played with depending on your conditions.

VORTICE "XP"
In really have no "race" experience on this board nor I prefer NOT to. Being that it doesn't float me very well. The water line tends to be a lot higher then normal. Although I did paddle it in flat water and it paddles really well. This board is meant for racing only and weights in at 25lb.

VORTICE "SP"
This board I really Love. It is built for my weight & my height. It's 14'x 28"x 6" and has a lot less rocker then the "BW". This board is hand shaped and glides very well. I took it out this pass Sunday and did a small run (4 miles) then took into the surf (I really don't suggest it). It holds the rail good and surfs very well. The board weights in at slim 27lb.

At 220 lbs, you may be a candidate for a custom stick.   Possibly talk to SIC, Bark, Angulo, Richard Greene, Bill Fooote about Race boards for big guys.  Not sure if Penetrator in your area is a custom possibility or a molded deal. 

I suggest you demo a "BW" to see if you need to have board custom made. That is the route I went. Also if you can maybe borrow one then make your decision from there.

OK now the final question.......What's the best Down Wind at present?

Hand's down its my Vortice "SP"............The problem is the engine that's motoring it, ain't that good. LOL 
                                                           


Aloha........Sam

P.S......This is just my two cent and I hope this is helpful.........Good Luck

[Paddle-Plappe]

I went for a test yesterday about starboard 15'. Light, stable, good glide, easy to ride, it's the best board i've tried for downwind yet.

[PonoBill]

I tried the Starboard Point at the dealer demo a couple of days ago. Very impressive. Fast, stable, foot steering works great, and I like the steering lock idea--a simple sliding block.

[Admin]

I went for a test yesterday about starboard 15'. Light, stable, good glide, easy to ride, it's the best board i've tried for downwind yet.

That is a very nice board.  The Point finished #2 Solo with rudder Molokai to Oahu.

Here is a grab from Mark's site:

Latest race results:


Maliko to Kahului 2008/Rudder


#1 Dave Kalama                     F-18 Custom


#2 Scott Trudon                     F-16 Custom


#3 Buzzie Kerbox                   F-16 Custom





Hennessy’s Turtle bay to Waimea/Stock


#1 Mark Raaphorst                F-14 Custom


#2 Todd Bradley                              Vortice


 


QuiksilverEdition Molokai to Oahu 2008


Team with rudder:


#1 Dave & Ekolu Kalama                    F-18


#2 Alain Cadiz & Scott Trudon           F-16


#3 Gregg Sheehan/ Philip Binney      F-16


 


Solo with rudder:


#1 Dwain de Soto                               F-16


#2 Kevin Horgan  “The Point” by Starboard





Women team with rudder:


#1 Andrea Moller & Maria Souza        F-16


#2 Tiare Lawrence & Dane Ward        F-16


#3 Lani Gomes & Jen Konohia           F-16

[Tony DaKine]

I did my first real downwind run today from Hawaii Kai to Kaimana beach. I alternated between an F-16 and a custom F-15.

I started out on the F-15 and though I don't know the dimensions, it looked a little wider and a fuller in the nose than the F-16. Having a foam core as opposed to the F-16, it was also a little heavier. It felt very stable for my 225lbs. The steering was set up for regular so I had to ride switch stance. It felt awkward so I ended up just steering mostly with paddle pressure. Catching the bumps was a little tricky. I managed to get into a few here and there throughout but nothing connected. More often than not, I ended up wasting energy trying to get into some where timing was off.

About half way, I switched over to the F-16. Although stable enough, it wasn't nearly as stable as the F-15. It was lighter and took off into the bumps easier but I felt like I was fighting the board a lot more than the F-15. While I could steer a little bit on the F-15, I found the F-16 to be too difficult for me to steer with the A.S.S so again I used paddle pressure which really wastes energy.

My guess is the F-16 is a faster board in capable hands, but for me, I really liked the stability of the custom F-15. I was set to order a custom F-14 to stay in a stock category but now I'm thinking maybe a custom F-16. A little wider and with the foam core. And of course the A.S.S. set up for goofy foot.

Overall the main thing I learned: it's harder than it looks and will definitely take time learning.

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

I'm just beginning in the whole downwind action and have been spending a lot of time doing it over the past 6 weeks or so.  In that time I've mostly ridden the C4 Vortice BW, F-16 and F-15.  The F-15 and F16 are the same ones Tony mentioned.  I weigh 200 lbs now (dw burns lots of calories), down from 218. 

Vortice BW 14' is the most stable board of the three.  There is a lot of nose rocker on it and I thought it was pushing lots of water until I moved back on it a couple feet.  Getting the nose out of the water helps it to plane once moving.  As a beginner, this is a great board to start on and the one I mostly have my beginning friends ride due to the stability.  This board is easier to transport and store due to the shorter length.  I think this is a good board for 200 lbs + guys although good riders can still get on the XP.  Todd, Brian, Dave and the C4 crew absolutely fly on these things although they ride the carbon XP model. 

F-16 for me is the fastest accelerator which I think is due to the weight.  The rudder makes it much easier for me during cross winds although that's just my opinion and I'm a beginner.  This is the board Duane DeSoto won the Molokai on so in the right hands it blazes. 

F-15 is a custom board with less overall and nose rocker, flat bottom (F-16 has a slight V bottom), sharp rails (F-16 has softer rails), is a bit heavier, sits lower in the water and is wider throughout the whole board.  It's more stable than the F-16, doesn't accelerate as fast although seems to punch through to the next bump better (I think due to the rocker and weight).  Everything from S.I.C. that's not an F-16 is a custom shape made out of foam.  The bottom, rails and rocker on this board make it stable and that helps especially at the end of the run when my legs get tired. 

It's really hard for me to tell which I like better.  I guess it depends on the conditions and my mood.

[PonoBill]

S.I.C. sure seems to have the big handle on going fast with a paddle.

[LaPerouseBay]

I'm just beginning in the whole downwind action and have been spending a lot of time doing it over the past 6 weeks or so.  In that time I've mostly ridden the C4 Vortice BW, F-16 and F-15.  The F-15 and F16 are the same ones Tony mentioned.  I weigh 200 lbs now (dw burns lots of calories), down from 218. 

Vortice BW 14' is the most stable board of the three.  There is a lot of nose rocker on it and I thought it was pushing lots of water until I moved back on it a couple feet.  Getting the nose out of the water helps it to plane once moving.  As a beginner, this is a great board to start on and the one I mostly have my beginning friends ride due to the stability.  This board is easier to transport and store due to the shorter length.  I think this is a good board for 200 lbs + guys although good riders can still get on the XP.  Todd, Brian, Dave and the C4 crew absolutely fly on these things although they ride the carbon XP model. 

F-16 for me is the fastest accelerator which I think is due to the weight.  The rudder makes it much easier for me during cross winds although that's just my opinion and I'm a beginner.  This is the board Duane DeSoto won the Molokai on so in the right hands it blazes. 

F-15 is a custom board with less overall and nose rocker, flat bottom (F-16 has a slight V bottom), sharp rails (F-16 has softer rails), is a bit heavier, sits lower in the water and is wider throughout the whole board.  It's more stable than the F-16, doesn't accelerate as fast although seems to punch through to the next bump better (I think due to the rocker and weight).  Everything from S.I.C. that's not an F-16 is a custom shape made out of foam.  The bottom, rails and rocker on this board make it stable and that helps especially at the end of the run when my legs get tired. 

It's really hard for me to tell which I like better.  I guess it depends on the conditions and my mood.

the 12-2 ku nalu is constructed like an f-16.  fast downwinder as well. 

[StandUpPaddleSurf.net]

You're right...sorry, what I meant to say is that the F-16 and soon to be F-14 are hollow, carbon boards made from a mold like an OC-1 canoe.  The others in the "F" series are shaped out of foam and are custom.  He has another model that's 10' called the SRX that is also made in a mold.

[LaPerouseBay]

no worries mate.  hope i didn't sound too grumpy, i'd just gotten home from the hospital. 

another thing to add about mark's foam customs is that he can make them extremely light.  the top racers - a club i don't belong to - are allways telling mark 'lighter, lighter, lighter'.  as you can imagine, it makes those long boards much more responsive. 

the tradeoff of course is durability.  my f-16 is over a year old, with almost daily use.  it's still going strong, because his molded epoxy boards are built like tanks.  relatively light too.  i've got a hatch, bungee and an extra plug on mine, and it's only 30 pounds.  i scored a second hand f-18 prototype (#5) which is MUCH bigger.  its a foam custom, and only 32 pounds.  the 16 - 17 - 18 foam customs for the top guys are in the 20's.  but they are fragile. 

best of luck on the f-16. mark builds mean motor scooters - all about speed.  i'll be growing into mine for some time.  don't hesistate to move your foot pedal up and back.  it's very easy, and makes a big difference.