wide point

[footemaui]

As a designer I would like some feed-back on wide points. Forward-Mid-Aft

[Dooner]

Hi,

I'm interested in that question too.

My current board is 9'8" x 28" with wide point at the middle & 17" tail & 16.5" nose. Rounded pin tail, quad fin. Rocker is about 6.2 nose & 2.8 tail, pretty flat mid-section with nose & tail kick.

This board performs really well in very small surf (head high & under), but feels a bit too hippy/parallel when it gets going faster. The narrow nose doesn't really seem to help much as far as I can tell, but this is my first SUP and the only board I have used much.

I'm going to push the widepoint up about 8" on my next one to try to narrow up the the back 1/3rd of the board. Something like 9'8" x 28.3" @ 8" forward, 16.4" tail & 18.7" nose.

The idea with this one is to have a fuller curve in the front/mid section & a narrower back section for more control on bigger waves.

I would love to hear other experiences & ideas about wide points and any other design parameters...

dooner

[Rand]

Hey Dooner,
Give us some idea about the thickness as well.  My first sub 10' board was 9'10, but only 4 thick, and 28.5 wide.  I assumed I needed around that width, but when I jumped to 4 1/8th, suddenly 27 was possible and comfortable.  Then the trick is keeping thin rails without losing too much of that volume, etc, etc.

[boots]

As a designer I would like some feed-back on wide points. Forward-Mid-Aft

I definitely like the feeling of having the wide point forward. In my opinion it makes the board do nice full carves without having to step way back on the tail. I've ridden the 10'6" munoz a lot and one thing I've noticed with that board is that you really have to tail surf it because it has quite a bit of 'hips'. Lately I've been stand up surfing  with this old 8'8" Herbie Fletcher longboard (because i'm light and young) but it has a nice full nose and flows back into a square tail. For a 30 year old water logged board it rides pretty good. The wide point is forward and you kind of surf it with your front foot almost, kinda like a fish.

[Dooner]

Hey Dooner,
Give us some idea about the thickness as well.  My first sub 10' board was 9'10, but only 4 thick, and 28.5 wide.  I assumed I needed around that width, but when I jumped to 4 1/8th, suddenly 27 was possible and comfortable.  Then the trick is keeping thin rails without losing too much of that volume, etc, etc.

Hi Rand,

My current board is 4.25". I'm 6' - 200 lbs, so I don't feel like I should be going much below 28". It's flat bottom with a little single CC through the fins, and flat deck with thick, low apex rails.

Actually just had a really fun session on this one, lumpy windswell, but the biggest its been for months around here (head high, occasional overhead set).

The reason I'm thinking of going a little wider on the new board is that the outline ends up being a bit less parallel than my current board, so I figure I'll lose a little stability for a given width. I'm also thinning the rails out a touch, and I want to keep the volume about the same, around 145 - 150 liters.

Back on topic, I'm hoping that the wide point forward design with a lot of outline curve in the front/mid section will allow it to surf bigger, faster waves without having to run up and down the board all the time. Pull the sweet spot up a little, but still be able to stomp the tail for tight turns.

We'll see...

[footemaui]

Sounds like Dooner is on the rite track. So far in my experience mid wide point works good with nose and tail the same. forward when nose is wider than tail, and aft when tail is wider than nose....I'd like to see aphoto of the 9'8" with the narrow nose. Sounds interesting. Thickness is good to add volume, but have to remember it raises the center of gravity. Thickness and width create a fine line....To quote one of my mentors "SHAPING IS THE ART OF COMPESATION'

[Rand]

My current 9'4, for example, (27.5 x 4 1/8) has the wide point 2 inches forward of middle.  It is 16 tail 19 nose (at 1 foot off).  This board feels really good (I'm 185 lbs).  It is a larger version of my wife's 9'1 http://www.standupzone.com/reviews/Kazuma9'1.htm. 

I would be worried about going too far forward with the wide point, without careful consideration of volume underfoot in your paddling stance.  It seems that I end up standing (in parralell stance) with my toes on the wide point.  If that goes too far forward on a small board, especially for better wave days), that may be an odd paddling position. 

Cool thread!

Randy

[Jesper B]

Rand,
Could you post some pictures of your Katzuma and elaborate its pros and cons compared to your Blane Chamber 9'2''.

Best,

Jesper

[Rand]

Hi J,
We are heading back to Maui tomorrow (we got homesick).  I will snap some shots of the 9'4 in the next few days.

These boards are both really fun.  The Kazuma board is smaller overall, even though it is 2 inches longer.  It is 1/8 thinner, but the volume difference is greater again as the tail 1/3 is significantly thinner and narrower.  As expected, it paddles a bit less strongly, but grips that much better.  This is a subtle trade off.  Blanes's board accelerates like crazy, when the wave is not giving much.  I paddled the Kazuma down to Puamana Pools (super fun shortboard right that is in front of a gated community-often gets forgotten), and caught it shoulder to head high for 2 hours by myself.  I kept moving in further, as I began to trust the rail more and more, until I was in my usual shortboard take-off spot. 

In terms of little ripper boards, Blane's board may be more all around, while Matt's might be a hair more geared towards better waves, but that is what I asked for.  A touch more width or thickness towards the tail in Matt's would bring them even closer.

We are talking about nuance here.  I have said it before, but I am in love with my current boards.  Also, other members here have jumped on one or both of these.  I would like them to sound in as well.

Best,
Randy

[Dooner]

Here's an outline pic of my 9'8"



I had a really fun session on it yesterday, the first overhead waves all summer. A lot of this issues I felt before seemed to disappear, I guess I'm just getting better. I still had a bout of falling off for no real reason in the middle of my session (it was pretty sloppy windswell with random chop on top).

It's really interesting to hear how small some of you guys are going. I am starting to re-consider my next board, maybe bring it down to 9'6" or even less..

[Chan]

I think the ideal board quiver includes both a custom board for those dream days (designed with your size and preferred conditions in mind) and a production board that performs well in the conditions that you typically ride (in other words a great all around board).  Currently, my 9’2” Paddle Surf Hawaii and 9’ Kazuma are keeping me grinning.  Of course, this all may change when my new 8’6 says “hi”. 

[Jesper B]

Chan,
That is exactly my thought of ideal 2 board quiver. I'll soon have a SOS Big Green as allrounder, and a 9'2 or 9'4 custom for those days we long for. Just have to decide on who's gonna make the custom...

/Jesper

[supguam]

Hey Chan show us some pics when you get the 8'6" or something smaller

[Chan]

I hope to have it soon, and I will post pic's, possibly even action pic's if we have any waves.

[supguam]

Hey Chan thanks im looking foward to seeing your board..i weight around 155lbs. i was stoked to see Ivan on youtube ripping on  the  starboard windsurfer it made me  want to try the same thing but iam using a 8'10x31 wide windsurfing board from Fanatic its called the shark.I think for us light weights we can get away with a good design SUP shortboards in the 7s or 8s the sport is changing soon it may come down to this sizes someday??