Good deal on custom all-carbon boards

[SUPpaddler]

Has anyone bought one of these or know anything about them?  http://www.kitsonboards.com/collections
A Craiglist ad led me to them and I ordered a custom (still designing) all-carbon 12'6" (should be about 19 pounds) for $1,272 plus free shipping across the country.  It was a Black Friday sale but they are letting it run for now.  They include deck pad and the usual fittings plus front tie downs on touring boards.  All made in the USA (Wash State) if you can believe it.  They started making SUPs this year and are looking to get established.  They have some standard designs, but they looked a little boxy to me.  I think you may have to start with one of them as a reference point and say how you want it modified from there.  Or you may be able to send a board design software file.   I don't have anything to do with them, but I'm happy to support an American small business beating foreign prices.  I just hope they can stay in business.

[Weasels wake]

Apparently they have spent some good money on internet marketing.  I went to their web site once, prolly the day this thread started, and they are still showing up on the sidebar ads at various news, mostly, sites that I go to.
Good price, but the board dimensions are about 6 years old.

[surfcowboy]

Saw them at BOP. In the sun there they looked nice but hot. No beach lounging for you unless you bring oven mitts.

(Wait, I just had an amazing business idea...)

[pguidry]

SUPpaddler - let me know how it comes out.  I might have them take a cut at a touring board for me. When do you expect to get your board?

[SUPpaddler]

I'm still playing with designs, but almost done.  Since I'm only 150 lbs, I'm starting with the women's touring SUP, even though it only goes up to 12'6".  I want something a little challenging for flat water, so I'll reduce the water line width to maybe 26" with a narrow entry, wide tail, and low rocker. 

Since I'm concerned about accidentally getting it too tippy, I want to design in some extra stability.  What I can't decide is whether to widen the rails above the water line (at the expense of having the paddle stroke a bit further from center) or to have a concave of about 3/8" that puts more volume under the rails for stability (at the expense of a little speed because of more wetted surface.)

I downloaded Shape3D and Precision shaper (which they use) and am playing around.  I did some on-water experiments with the relative stability of those two approaches, which I'll post separately.  It really makes you think when you can customize.

If ordering their basic design, at least have them adjust volume and water line for your size, and I would have them round out the hull transition from bow to mid-section, where it looks like they just sliced two big flat cuts.  See the picture.  Other than that, their basic SUP design appears like it might be OK for mild water and they claim that all their customers have been happy.

[SUPJack]

I purchased one of these and couldn't be more disappointed. Very poor quality and the designs are really outdated. The board arrived covered in scratches. The center hand hold leaks like a sieve and my board quickly became much heavier than a standard fiberglass board. I got eight rides on it and it started de-laminating. The company refused to warranty this problem.

I think the biggest problem is that they don't use any professionals from the industry. Kitson's main business is selling wine racks. Their designer comes directly from that business. Granted, he's an engineer, but there's a big difference between designing a wine rack and a paddleboard. Their carbon layup guy is from the automotive industry. There doesn't appear to be anyone on staff that has significant experience in the board industry. What the company is good at is marketing, not building boards.

[jd]

$1200 for an all carbon board.  If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

[TallDude]

That design makes very little sense to me. The transition to flat seems just too abrupt and positioned almost behind your feet. You might even get a secondary bow wake out of it. Not sure where they were going with it???

[SUPpaddler]

I agree about their designs, and so I downloaded a copy of Precision Shaper which they use for their CNC cuts, and made by own 12'6" x 26.5" race board.  I sent them the file, and it's finally done.  They liked it enough that it was the centerpiece of their grand opening ceremony for their new facility.  They also want to make it a production model, which is fine with me.  I'll wait to see how the quality and finishing looks when I get it.  I hope the sunken deck came out OK.

[jd]

I purchased one of these and couldn't be more disappointed. Very poor quality and the designs are really outdated. The board arrived covered in scratches. The center hand hold leaks like a sieve and my board quickly became much heavier than a standard fiberglass board. I got eight rides on it and it started de-laminating. The company refused to warranty this problem.

I think the biggest problem is that they don't use any professionals from the industry. Kitson's main business is selling wine racks. Their designer comes directly from that business. Granted, he's an engineer, but there's a big difference between designing a wine rack and a paddleboard. Their carbon layup guy is from the automotive industry. There doesn't appear to be anyone on staff that has significant experience in the board industry. What the company is good at is marketing, not building boards.

What terrible story.  A good rule of thumb is to steer clear of companies that market on craigslist.  You should take them to small claims court..

SUPpaddler curious what experience you have designing and building boards?

[pdxmike]

I agree about their designs, and so I downloaded a copy of Precision Shaper which they use for their CNC cuts, and made by own 12'6" x 26.5" race board.  I sent them the file, and it's finally done.  They liked it enough that it was the centerpiece of their grand opening ceremony for their new facility.  They also want to make it a production model, which is fine with me.  I'll wait to see how the quality and finishing looks when I get it.  I hope the sunken deck came out OK.

Hope this all works out for you.  Don't take this the wrong way, but them wanting to turn your design into a production model is scary to me.  It could be a great design, but on the other hand I can't imagine any other board companies doing that. 

On their website, they call their boards "the Ferraris of Stand Up Paddle Boarding". (And spelling "standup" and "paddleboarding" differently than most of the rest of the industry is a bit scary itself.)  Yet you come along as a random customer (which is what you are to them, no matter what your skills) and design a board that's so good compared to what they've already designed that they want to add it to their lineup.  Compare that to a company like Naish, Starboard, Jimmy Lewis or any other, who have designers with years of experience, making prototype after prototype to fine-tune their designs.  They'd laugh at the idea of doing that.

It makes me wonder, if that's what they know about design, what do they know about manufacturing?

[SUPpaddler]

SUPpaddler curious what experience you have designing and building boards?

I have no prior design experience at all, so I gave myself a crash course, studying naval architecture and hydrodynamics for a few weeks, and assembling a good reference library.  Since the CNC software is fairly crude, I had to create my own spreadsheets for calculating parabolic outline shapes, volume distribution curves, water line depth, and most of the common hydrostatic parameters like prismatic coefficient and center of buoyancy.  I also looked at all the current displacement type designs out there and everything said about them.

Below are the hull design concepts I tried to incorporate, assuming a pure displacement style board versus planing shape.  Mathematically, it's all well and good, but could it be a total dud on the water.  I warned them not to use the design until I had at least a week to test it on the water and make any needed refinements.

[TallDude]

Well I have to say, from a theoretical stand point, it's a major improvement from their original boards. I'm an amateur shaper who approached my first shapes with a lot of theory, and definitely less mathematics. I did race a lot of boards, and had years of discussions with numerous shapers and pro paddlers before shaping one myself. It wasn't a total albatross, but it was a start. You have to start somewhere, so have fun with that. Let us know how it paddles.
  

I just looked at their website? OMG.... Their SUS and surfboard designs are possibly the worst I've ever seen. Their finishes don't look so hot either.

[ron.c]

All right it's 5am and I'm board. 

For the fun of it, I just check out their website.

Is this whole thread an April Fool's joke? ? ? ? ? ?

[SUPpaddler]

No, you may be "bored," but you're not a "board."  Go back to sleep.

Seriously though, their boards are not the only thing needing a remake.  I kind of feel bad for them.  There's potential there, but it really needs to be redirected.