Author Topic: paddling in wind  (Read 14767 times)

NoSaltSuper

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2013, 08:27:25 AM »
I'd say that paddling in a prolonged sidewind the board is a major factor.  Wider and softer rails are important.  Maybe less volume or high rails that get blown off track. 

I also love paddling upwind.  The water version of "earning my turns" in the winter skiing.  Move forwards on the board to keep the nose down, choke up on the paddle to force your body down...so less frontal area.   



Good points Muskoka,
But I assume you mean, choke down on the paddle?

I was doing this a lot the other day, choking down on top and bottom, bending at the waist with my torso almost parallel to the water. Amazing what a difference it makes.

I think of the wind/water relationship as I did when flying Hanggliders, ground effect is a big deal in flying.

I'm sure PB or others could explain it better but as I recall, the wind slows as it drags along a surface, land or water, due to friction. So getting lower gets you into the slower airflow.

In flying, it's what makes you drop like a rock the last 5 feet, when you get in the thick of it. You were flying in a 10mph headwind, thus staying aloft, you now get into/below ground effect and are in a 5 mph headwind, time to flare!

I plan on practicing/training for longer and longer periods in a lower position, for starting practice bursts and wind cheating. We'll see how it goes, doubt I can make a mile in that position.
Semper Fi!

It's simple, either you get the wave or the wave gets you.

Muskoka SUP

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2013, 10:04:47 AM »
I'd say that paddling in a prolonged sidewind the board is a major factor.  Wider and softer rails are important.  Maybe less volume or high rails that get blown off track. 

I also love paddling upwind.  The water version of "earning my turns" in the winter skiing.  Move forwards on the board to keep the nose down, choke up on the paddle to force your body down...so less frontal area.   



Good points Muskoka,
But I assume you mean, choke down on the paddle?

I was doing this a lot the other day, choking down on top and bottom, bending at the waist with my torso almost parallel to the water. Amazing what a difference it makes.

I think of the wind/water relationship as I did when flying Hanggliders, ground effect is a big deal in flying.

I'm sure PB or others could explain it better but as I recall, the wind slows as it drags along a surface, land or water, due to friction. So getting lower gets you into the slower airflow.

In flying, it's what makes you drop like a rock the last 5 feet, when you get in the thick of it. You were flying in a 10mph headwind, thus staying aloft, you now get into/below ground effect and are in a 5 mph headwind, time to flare!

I plan on practicing/training for longer and longer periods in a lower position, for starting practice bursts and wind cheating. We'll see how it goes, doubt I can make a mile in that position.

Ahhhh, yup, choke down, that's the ticket.  Typing before thinking, typical.   ;)
Also, when lowering your upper and bottom hands, flexing at the knees to compensate (not just folding over at the waist) gives the added benefit of having more flexion to absorb the waves - as well as reducing frontal wind resistance.  There - more skiing analogies (kind of...)
It ain't over until the fat board sinks....

exetersup

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2013, 09:56:04 AM »
@Stoneaxe-
You would have loved the upwind conditions at the end of the 9 mile race at last weekend 's Run of the Charles! The first 6 miles and 3 portages were easy. They after the 3rd portage, it was 3 miles straight up the gut into 15-20knt headwind. I just put my head down and grinded it out. I passed a ton of kayakers and canoes who couldnt make much headway at all.
It is a good training option!

PDLSFR

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2013, 07:09:44 AM »
@ exetersup sounds like my morning this am only I didn't have the grind to make it.
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stoneaxe

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2013, 09:02:00 AM »
 Not sure love is the word I would use for upwind for the last 3 miles of a 9 mile race... ;D. I've chased you into the wind before remember and watched you steadily pull away... >:(. How did you do BTW?
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freetobeme

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2013, 04:42:09 AM »
I dig paddling into wind also and like Stoneaxe said it will make you stronger, both physically and mentally. Add a swift current against you, which usually happens at my local spot, and you'll be benching 400 in no time  :)
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kayadogg

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2013, 04:57:36 AM »
Exetersup took first in the 9 miler. We entered the water after the last portage at the same time, he gave me an energy shot and then we dropped the hammer to sprint the last 3 miles. Lets just say he was only in my sights for a little while. He even caught up to Will Rich who was on a 17'6 and had a good lead on us from the 19 mile race.

Way to go Shawn, looking forward to next weekend.

PonoBill

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Re: paddling in wind
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2013, 11:11:12 AM »
Speaking to the original question, yes, I've tried a wind vane, works very well. I made a self steering middle fin for my Glide 14 last year, or maybe it was two years ago. Anyway, it was a small spitfire-style fin with about 20 percent more area behind the shaft to make it self-align. The shaft passed through the board to an upper vane that had most of it's area behind the fin. the van could be pushed down which would make it rub against a piece of rubber on the deck so it wouldn't move, or popped up a little so it could freely rotate in the wind. The idea was to have both manual steering using the paddle to push the vane while in the locked position, and automatic steering when it was up and loose.

In a straight headwind it helped a little to keep the nose aimed properly. It allowed the nose to get too far out of alignment before correction to rely on it as true self steering, but it helped. In a crosswind it was magic. It literally felt as though the board was faster than downwind. That was just an illusion, but the front steering took a lot of load off the fin and rails, making the board a lot less "draggy". The challenge in crosswinds is that not only are you being pushed against like a sail, but the fin and rail angle cause a great deal of drag. Self steering mitigates that.

The problem arose in downwind, where the friction of the rubber pad was insufficient to hold the vane. the board would suddenly turn, and dump you in the water. My friend Rod Parmenter, who has balance and reflexes like a cat, probably fell a hundred times on a viento run when he borrowed the board. As I recall we finally yanked the fin or he'd still be out there.

The results are what prompted me to start working on the RC rudder and autopilot, which should  be a much more complete solution.

Oh, and paddling. When you go into the wind, the Tahitian stroke rules. Long reach, very short pull, and then a vertical recovery with smooth feathering is how its done. Watching Dave Kalama or Jeremy Riggs go upwind faster than I go downwind is all the evidence you need. I used that technique a few days ago when Boyum and his pals took 29 Canucks for a Maliko run to Sugar Cove. I'd zip through the group just to watch the folks having fun, then turn out to the side and paddle upwind a while so they'd pass me. A nice workout, and probably the reason why my second run to the harbor an hour later was a lot more work than I expected.
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