Author Topic: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK  (Read 23223 times)

surf4food

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WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« on: November 09, 2012, 08:36:00 AM »
I know this is the Standup Zone and I’m enquiring about sitting down but this is something I’ve been curios about for awhile.  For anyone who’s done either of these sports, what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of either wave skis (not to be confused with surf skis) or fully enclosed kayaks designated for wave riding?  Neither of these sports is common here in Southern California but I figure at least someone on the Zone had done one of both of these.  What made you pick one over the other? 

linter

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 08:58:50 AM »
  I used a waveski but never a surf kayak, though plenty of my friends have.  i liked the waveski because it felt more like i was surfing, especially when the ski was the longboard one made by steve boehne at infinity.  on a ski, you never have to worry about your craft filling with water if your tunnel blows off.  you've *got* to know how to roll if you're in a kayak, not true so much on a waveski.
  my infinity is in deep storage in my garage, waiting for the day i can no longer stand up to SUP.  hope it never comes, but if it does ....

surf4food

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 09:11:08 AM »
  I used a waveski but never a surf kayak, though plenty of my friends have.  i liked the waveski because it felt more like i was surfing, especially when the ski was the longboard one made by steve boehne at infinity.  on a ski, you never have to worry about your craft filling with water if your tunnel blows off.  you've *got* to know how to roll if you're in a kayak, not true so much on a waveski.
  my infinity is in deep storage in my garage, waiting for the day i can no longer stand up to SUP.  hope it never comes, but if it does ....

I can certainly see the part about having to know how to roll.  As far as water getting in the craft I would think that’s what the  skirt is for.  But yeah, being locked into your craft while being pummeled by the wave if you wipe out seems a bit hairy to me.

Celeste

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
Three weeks ago, I paddled with a gentleman who just got his level 3 kayak instructors cert.  He said they made him learn to roll before they good give it to him, that he had never needed it, "if you have a good brace, you don't need to roll"  So given that, why would one have to learn to roll in the surf and not in class 5-6 white water?  I don't kayak, so enlighten me please
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Ucycle

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2012, 09:52:52 AM »
I did surfkayak(a surfkayak not a whitewater kayak) for 6 month.  It is alot warmer in a kayak than surfski and you do seat lower too.  i think performance wise, surfkayak is better than waveski. With kayak you can run smaller board than waveski where they have to worry about the volume since it is not fully enclose.  But i quite the sport as i couldn't get my roll perfect and had to swim back many times with a flooded boat.  In a swimming pool, i can roll up anytime but once you add in wave and other elements it makes it so much harder.  Plus i dont have a buddy that surf with me so it become very dangerous as you can drown if you can't get out of the kayak or unbuckle the lapbelt on a waveski. 

Maybe Corran can chime in as he held many national title in WW kayak and design the first rotomolded surfkayak.
"Surfing is not fashion, it is passion... F*CK YOU surf industry!!!!" -SL

surf4food

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 12:45:00 PM »
Another thing I’m curious about is if and what kind of tension exists (in areas where this is popular) between waveski/surf kayak paddlers and prone surfers or even SUP surfers for that matter.

bigdom

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 01:14:07 PM »

LaPerouseBay

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 01:28:23 PM »
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tde

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 02:10:29 PM »
 I sold waveskis and sit-on-top surf kayaks for a number of years...
(until I converted to exclusively SUP in 2007). Waveskis are generally much higher performance.....lighter,quicker, thruster fin setup, etc. You are attached to the board by a seatbelt.. Two styles.... the australian/south african shorter skis...and the California style that is a little longer and has only one fin. (Surftech had a Infinity model designed by Steve Boehne that was a really fun craft)....Waveskis are generally more  tippy, and a good bit of work....particularly in the surf as you can't duck dive through waves and can take a serious beating...you better have a good roll!!
 There were some fun sit-on-top surf kayaks being made 4-5 years ago. Thigh straps keep you connected to the kayak. The Wilderness Systems Kaos was one of the best and I still keep one around. VERY USER FRIENDLY.....
If you want to email me I'll be happy to provide more info....
BTW...since I started SUPing I my waveskis and SOT's have collected a lot of dust.....


paddlebuilder

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 02:28:07 PM »
I rode a surf kayak for about five years...until sup came along!  My roll was good and I had a load of fun but I really did take a beating in the thing when it got big.   The kayak felt like surfing  but for my money I'm sticking with sup surfing. I would go back to kayak surfing if there was no such thing as sup surfing. 

PaddleAnything

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 04:03:25 PM »
Three weeks ago, I paddled with a gentleman who just got his level 3 kayak instructors cert.  He said they made him learn to roll before they good give it to him, that he had never needed it, "if you have a good brace, you don't need to roll"  So given that, why would one have to learn to roll in the surf and not in class 5-6 white water?  I don't kayak, so enlighten me please

Being in any decked kayak on moving water requires a certain level of self rescue ability.  The kayak roll is needed for anyone paddling class III or above whitewater.  Sure, someone may be able to paddle a class III rapid without a combat roll, but when (not if) they swim it is a pain and safety issue for them and others. 

I've paddled class IV and V whitewater for many years.  Everyone knows how to roll and everyone swims from time to time if they paddle at that level.  So, in addition to self rescue, many other rescue skills are needed. 

BTW, class VI whitewater is considered unrunnable.  As far as rolling a surf style decked kayak, if you swim there is a very good chance the boat will fill with water and sink/washout to sea.  I was much more nervous about paddling my whitewater kayak in the surf than on any rapid.  Taking a beatdown in a shore break just doesn't appeal to me whereas rivers offer nice fluffy carnage as long as you are wearing a helmet, pfd and sometimes elbow pads. 

I'm not sure what a level 3 kayak instructor is....but Class III or above paddlers learn to roll or soon give up. 

surf4food

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 04:17:05 PM »
I rode a surf kayak for about five years...until sup came along!  My roll was good and I had a load of fun but I really did take a beating in the thing when it got big.   The kayak felt like surfing  but for my money I'm sticking with sup surfing. I would go back to kayak surfing if there was no such thing as sup surfing. 

So what made you choose a kayak over a waveski?

paddlebuilder

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 07:29:37 PM »
The choice of kayak over wave ski came down to I could demo the kayak and not a wave ski plus I have done some river kayaking so it made sense in terms of experience.  The wave ski's I had been around were what I think others have called "Aussie" style....pretty uncompromising and not easy to paddle.  For the waves I surf, a more forgiving ride made more sense.  Plus the weather and water where I ride (s,oregon/norcal) gets bloody chilly at times and the kayak is definitely warmer. 

wilanz

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2012, 05:48:41 PM »
I paddled White Water Kayaks in the ocean for practice between trips to NC/TN/VA for white water.  Lots of fun catching waves with them but you really had to work to surf them and make sure to be in a spot away from everyone else.  The older styles boats were longer narrower and surfed nice.  The newer playboats were like being on top of a bubble.  They bounced around and surfed very high on the wave.   So much fun and we could go out in just about any wave/wind conditions. Usually planning one way trips since the current/wind would take us down the beach.

I then tried Surf Kayaks, Riot Boogie, Mega Maverick, Mega Neutron.  Completely different boats that really ripped in the surf with their thruster fin setups.  Tough to paddle since the volume was not balanced. Very small tails and big noses. They worked nice on the waves.

My first time trying a waveski didn't go well. I was all over the place and it wasn't my size.  6 months later, I tried another one that was set up for my height(Seat to Feet). Wow...Amazing.  Best parts were the easy entry/exit from shore pound since you could walk it out and then strap in. Also it was freeing to not have a skirt and to be able to rest your legs like a surfer along side for balance.  The surfing on a waveski really let you lean a bit harder into the turns since you weren't hitting the deck near your knees.

Over the three years of learning kayaking, surf kayaking and waveskis.  I had one of each and depending on the conditions I could pick and choose. Waveski for nice days, surf kayak for rough days, white water boat for near impossible days where tumbling in the shore pound was the best I could hope for.

On one of those nice days I saw a SUP surfer catching more waves then me.  It looked so easy and that day I went to do a demo/lesson and rental.  I was out on the ocean catching waves on a SUP. Not knowing what to do with the paddle or how to turn the huge board but knowing that was a lot more fun then sitting.

Kayaks were sold that week and I kept the waveski for nasty days where I couldn't get out on the SUP.  Eventually, I got good enough to SUP where I was going out with my kayak buddies and that was the end of the waveski era.

If you get a chance to try these toys go for it.  Also a white water kayak lesson was probably where I learned the most about paddle handling that I still use for SUP.  Low brace/high brace, sculling, etc.   I could take on 6-8' waves in the ocean but my white water instructor showed me how manage the paddle and conditions more efficiently then paddling for my life followed by uncontrolled fun :)


wilanz

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Re: WAVESKI VS. SURF KAYAK
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2012, 06:00:20 PM »
Some pics from a waveski contest in Cocoa Beach, FL in 2008

https://picasaweb.google.com/109355816621000054465/WaveSkiCompApril2008

2007
https://picasaweb.google.com/109355816621000054465/WaveSkiCompetitionSept2007

The paddler who usually won these events added a foot strap to the deck of their waveski.  After getting on the wave and ripping it up for points, he would unstrap the waist belt and pop up to essentially SUP surf it with the paddle in hand.  I don't think they counted that part of the wave but it sure was impressive to watch Fletcher transition and keep on surfing!


 


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