Author Topic: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring  (Read 8078 times)

rkdjones

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14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« on: October 02, 2012, 09:49:13 AM »
I know this topic has been kicked around a few times, but I want to bring it up again, in hopes that there is more experience out there.  And since I am thinking about getting a new board next spring, it is a real issue for me.  What are the pros and cons of a 14' vs 12-6 board for general touring, fitness paddling on relatively flatwater?  Is there a minimum paddler weight for 14ers.


TN_SUP

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Re: Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2012, 11:15:02 AM »
A wise man told me: 12'6" for portability, maneuverabilty, and buoy turns, 14' for distance paddling.
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Chilly

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 12:12:54 PM »
I recently went through the same dilemma. If your over 170lb I would go with the 14’. If you’re less than 170lb then it’s a tough choice. I ended up getting a 12’6”, but I really can’t explain the logic behind my decision. Eventually I will get a 14’ for long distance racing and touring. As far as your second question of minimum paddler weight for a 14’, I don’t think there is a minimum weight.   
 
And +1 for what the wise man said.
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SaltH2Opaddler

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 07:37:45 PM »
After one paddle on a 14'er I am sold. The glide is sooooo much better than a 12'6" board!!!

If you can go custom that is the way to go. Customs can be made super light and the perfect volume to fit you.

that's my 2 cents ;D

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SUPlime

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 07:49:05 PM »
14'

CascadeSup

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 07:54:30 PM »
At somewhere around 160 lbs, I went for a M&M 14 when I wanted a faster, more efficient board than the 12-6 I started on.  

I love the M&M 14, and never have felt it was too big.   It's what I paddle all the time on Lake Sammamish, Lake Washington and Lake Wenatchee, dealing with waves and chop from both wind and boats (and the occasional flat glassy water).  I'm not ready to take it out in a big down winder, but I think you get the idea.

Not all 14 foot boards are the same: I find the M&M 14 quite easy to turn, it's a very loose feeling board on the water - probably from the slightly lifted nose, rounded rails and forward fin position.  Once you get used to moving back on the board, it pivots quite easily (and I'm not an expert at it yet).  

So I would not rule out a 14 foot board based on maneuverability.  If you are  touring or fitness paddling, how many turns are you making, and does it matter how quickly you can turn?  I think it may only be an issue for racing on tight courses with lots of turns - and only for some board designs.

And as for weight, I think there are probably a number of 14 foot boards appropriate for different weights.

rkdjones

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 08:43:29 AM »
I will look for a stable 14' flatwater touring board.  Next challenge is finding any boards locally.  A local shop carriies the Bark-Laird 14.  Anyone have experience with that board?  Anyone in the Seattle area know of places I might be able to see some of the more stable 14ers like the Hobie e-series.  Robert

pdxmike

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2012, 08:56:44 AM »
Not sure about what specific boards they carry, but Urban Surf by Gasworks Park has a good selection (and carries the SUP Buddy beverage holders!).  And Gorge Performance (gorgebob) in Portland has a great selection of 14' boards, and is only 3 hours away (and no sales tax).   Bob has had a Bark-Laird 14' there and I think it's still there.  I've tried it and it's a very nice, versatile board that will work for heavy people, but I've seen one really light young guy racing one around here, so doesn't like it could be giving up much speed in return for stability. 

TWsup

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 09:01:33 AM »
I've been reading some stuff on canoe design. I'm not a mathematician but I can figure out the concepts.
basically the longer board gives faster max hull speed.  this is pretty common knowledge.it's not that much more from 18". but go to 16 ft and its significant.
price you pay is more friction from larger surface, but it is still a positive trade off. from what I tell that trade off starts to break even at around 15-6 to 16 ft. meaning frictional increase starts to negate hull speed benefits and makes board slower, given the power a human can exert. my take on that is that a 16 ft board would be fastest for long distances.
in addition, and this is the big advantage, maximum beam (width) is major factor in wave making and friction area. a longer board can be narrower than shorter board with same stability.

that would mean a 16ft board, as narrow as possible that still has stability for you would be most efficient. It could be that if you paddle in wind that windage of hull over water has significant negative effect.

Victoria sup did a rather good test on 14 footers that has been tagged on this forum, and it seemed to me that the narrow boards were fastest. so there is some empirical data to back this up.
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Celeste

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 09:36:59 AM »
Canoes are not SUP's or skis, or kayaks.  Your basic concepts are correct, but the exacts measurements are going to change depending on the design of the craft.  Longer can be narrower with the same buoyancy, therefore lower total drag despite an increase of wetted surface.  Skis are the fastest thing out there omitting Olympic K1's, they seem to run in the 19-21' range for surf and 21-23' for flat water.  if you want fast, I am going to suggest a SUOS, that would be a Stand Up Outrigger Ski.  With the out rigger you could reduce width under 16" and get the stability with the ama, and when you good enough get the ama flying it would really go.

To the OP, I only paddle 14' boards, so can't comment on 12-6 boards, but i I have no complaints about handling in or out of the water
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mdsurf

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 10:05:22 AM »
I paddle the Laird Bark in fresh water and salt water and love it.  Flat and glassy water it goes fast and smooth and the ocean it cuts through the chop pretty good.  Side chop is a little tough but great all around race board.  It is a pro elite so it is very light weight.  turns real easy and paddles straight.  step back and it turns fine.  everyone that has tried it says it is stable and glides well.  I would recommend it as a race, fitness or cruising around.  I have surfed it in knee high smooth lines and it glides real well.

Area 10

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 10:35:42 AM »
Most people who buy a 12-6 later go on to buy a 14.

Most people who have a 14 do not move to a 12-6 as their preferred board.

(Although many people, like me, have both.)

It is an expensive business changing boards. So it makes sense to go straight to a 14 unless you have a specific reason not to (e.g. you want to do BOP races, your conditions don't suit, or you are a featherweight, or don't have space etc).

But it's all good.

Easy Rider

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 11:35:17 AM »
Depends on your weight. Over say 170 - go with a 14'.
Of if you plan on long distance touring - go with a 14'
If you plan on carrying a lot of gear - go with a 14'

As for which one?  I am partial to the Starboard Touring series . . . Since my name is on the bottom.
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beaner

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2012, 06:08:11 AM »
I'm 160lbs and ordered a 12'6 Tahoe Zephyr without trying. I was quite happy with it, but it started to crack on the rail, so was able to get it replaced under warranty.

When I went to pick up the replacement, I was able to try a 14' Zephyr and loved the better glide/tracking, so upgraded to that instead. It is sleeker/narrower as well. The extra 18 inches is not a big deal for transport/storage, but it feels much more efficient on the water.

For general touring/distance/fitness, I would definitely recommend a 14'.

rkdjones

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Re: 14 vs 12-6 for flatwater touring
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2012, 07:58:12 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback.  Last fall I went through the same process of looking at 12-6 vs. 14 and ended up buying a used 12-6 Ron House.  It has been a pretty good board for me.  It seems that I get the shopping bug in the fall because I want something a little better after paddling a season.

I went to Urban Surf and test paddled the Amundson 12-6 TR-2 because I heard its stability is similar to the Amundson 14.  Boy it really convinced me that the lines of the bow are critical.  The TR2 has a canoe bow, but broadens out quickly.  I can really see and feel the resistance from the bow.  The Barks all seem to have bows that stays pretty narrow - I think this is a winning design.  Even though the Laird-Bark 14 is wide, it does top my list currently.  I will see if I can get a demo on it.

 


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