The back foot -- getting it on the tail for for surfing

[abmatt]

OK, enough with the cruising. Enough with being smooth. I'm a competent surfer, prone and stand-up (should be after all these years) but after having board reduction surgery I want to start throwing my 8-11 around a little more. And it wants me to do just that.
To do that, I know I'm going to need to my back foot farther back. Even though I can cross-step up and down, I always seem to be caught too far forward.
And when I do get back on the tail, I feel like I lose momentum and drive, at least in our softish Florida waves. (Think my feet may be too close together.) So I find myself cheating to get forward.
So, your opinions:
How far back should the rear foot be for getting looser and more vertical? Right over the fins, I'm guessing?
And what do you find gets you back there --- especially if you have to cheat up on the nose as you paddle, just to catch the wave? Do you do that kind of cross-step back as you're dropping in?
And what about that lack of drive when I do get that foot back where it needs to be? I know that's me, not the board.
Ideas welcome. Thanks.

[AJR]

I've been stuck in the same conundrum lately as well - I think the solution will require a new board... 

All joking aside I would be interested to hear what others say regarding technique and if board design is a factor.  I'm on a Coreban Fusion and if i'm not mistaken  ABmatt is on a similarly shaped Joe Blair.

[abmatt]

Yeah, AJR. In fact Joe Blair pointed out my problem in his typical (and appreciated) blunt manner. I sent a picture of me all tucked in a cozy pocket -- I don't know, I thought it looked pretty cool -- and he emailed back something to the effect of -- "Dude! You need to get on the tail and start ripping that thing!"

[T-Boy]

After stepping off the tail a couple times looking for that sweet spot I put a kick pad over the fin area, solved that problem. Now I gotta work on the front foot.

[jdmotes]

 You looked like you were carving it up pretty well yesterday, pvmatt...       Paddle on,     JD

[Old School 213]

ab,

I had the same question and it lead me to get some new fins. Away from a 2+1 with a 9.5" center and 4.5" side bites to a thruster set, the GL-1's around 5.5" and I'm planning on getting on them Saturday morning. can't wait!

[TallDude]

I've recently had a board reduction, and I find my new shorter board doesn't perform as well when the waves are under 4' or even just big slow rollers at my usual spot. I have to pump the nose to create speed before I can bury the rail and then keep pumping it to gain speed again. My 11' board will catch anything and get up to enough speed to where i can turn and still maintain momentum. I've been going to a new faster steeper break, and my short board really performs better there. Even in smaller surf I don't have to pump it. My shorter board is barely 3/4" thick at the tail, so I don't have to do more than shift most of my weight to my back foot and it's sunk. On my 11'r I have to put all my weight back, and brace on my paddle to sink the tail. I also put weight on my paddle and really lean on it to turn hard. If any of this helps?

[TallDude]

Look at the pressure Colin puts on his paddle. I watch him all the time, and he's a carving master. There is a wake coming off his paddle. He has it pinned to his hip with his right hand, and controlling the pressure with his left.

[Dwight (DW)]

abmatt,

Yep, been through all the same issues myself. I solved it though.

Some boards are a bitch to get your foot back there, and keep it there. Often, the tails just lacked enough volume for my 194 lbs to make it easy. Middle weights make it looks easy. But they should, they float high and dry compared to me. Then other boards just seem to have complicated rockers that make the board perform radically different with slight changes in foot placement. I hate that type of rocker.

I took everything I didn't like in all the boards I've owned and demoed, and tried to make something that would solve all "my" issues. I had a good rocker to copy (from a board I owned). Then I changed the template to widen the tail slightly, but more importantly I moved the wide point back, adding more float to the rear half of the board. Next I made sure not to include any V. I hated heavy V in everything I ever surfed. It adds shimmy wobbles when you're pushing limits volume wise and it's counter to everything we know is good for speed. V is slower. V is a displacement bottom. Flat is fast. Concave is fast, provided you don't add V. You add V for control and easier rolling rail to rail turning. We don't need this with a 7'8. And with super sonic speed, it turns BETTER than with V going regular speeds. Put V in a windsurfer and you'll get your doors blown off.

What I got when I combined all these ideas was the fastest board any of us has ever surfed standing.

The length at 7'8, eliminates the need to run up and down the deck. The flat bottom, nose to tail, gives it way more stability than you can possibly imagine. The wide tail makes you feel empowered like superman. It just flies and each little push of the back foot gives it jet like propulsion. It's a whole new world for myself and all the people using the new shape.

[SoCalSupper]

so many variables with this topic-foot placement-size and location of fins-deck pad-tail style-surf style-endless really.
In the end do like TD says and try to emulate CMcP. He really is a master at using the paddle-so is Tommy Lloy.

If that dosent work it wasnt meant to be and go back to the pool toy in the beach break.

[kneecap]

I like the kick pad idea. I have one, and when I feel it I know I'm as far back as I should go. However, if getting far enough back kills all your speed, then you need to go a different route as you gotta have speed to carve. One of the things that bothers me about a lot of stand up surfers is that they turn so freaking flat! Getting it on rail is where it's at.

Things that work for me- bury that paddle and use it as a fulcrum. Lean back and into it and it will shorten the arc of your turn a lot.

Get your butt low. The lower the center of gravity, the more power you can drive.

Really cock that back leg and get your heel or toes over the rail depending on the direction of your turn. Look at pics of Tom Carroll, probably had the heaviest back foot in the last thirty years. Especially "the snap" at the Pipe Masters- big board, big steep wave, and he gouged the snot out of it. Incidentally, a huge SUP convert.

I'll bottom turn and actually move my foot over before I weight it for a snap. It helps a ton. Good luck, and if all else fails buy a narrow 8'er!



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Strand Leper]

Here is an interesting sequence...

Small, breaking on the shore... at high tide...

As it is breaking over a pile of rocks... and into three inch water, the last turn is VERY flat and weak... but I was literally at the sand... (excuse, excuse...)

Note the rear foot... over the inside rail at takeoff...

Over the other inside rail at turn...

This is my VERY small 7'9" by 26 by 3.5... the Collab

[Strand Leper]

Ooops... here is first pic clearly showing inside rail...

[Strand Leper]

Yes, that is the Country label under the front foot... this is the Roger Hinds / Corran Addison collaboration...

[abmatt]

I love this forum. Lots of great ideas.
I'm piecing it together. I like the foot pad idea, and just burying the paddle... I could incorporate those easily ... sometimes I think I just skim the paddle.
And those pics are really illustrative, Strand Leper. Nice stuff. I think getting that back foot closer to the rail must is key. Going frontside I tend to place it it more in the middle, like on a prone board.
But when I think about it, going backside I tend to make harder turns because my foot gets on the rail more -- and I tend to dig the paddle in much more, especially on the bottom turn. Even broke a crappy paddle doing that.
Frontside, not so much.
And I like the suggestion to really get that butt down -- but I'm handicapped, I think, by coming of age in Santa Barbara in the mid-late '70s. It was all black wetsuit, clear board, feet close together on the fat sweet spot of little wide 6-2s, trying to get your hands out just so as you connected long sections. My style was set by the time I saw a little kid named Tom Curren ripping at Hammonds looking smooth AND holy-moly radical ... Never figured out how he did that!