Author Topic: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon  (Read 5682 times)

1paddle2paddle

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 10:33:09 AM »
I lay the blame of surfski showing up here squarely on Jonathan's shoulders  ;D  Maybe LPB too.  I dunno.

Jonathan - I find that I brace my ski on the right side fairly regularly when I catch a glide.  Most of the time not really digging in but letting it skip lightly on the water just for an extra touch of stability, and resting the core muscles.  I'm wondering if that is a holdover from OC-1 where there was always the ama to prevent flipping to the right...? 

greatdane

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 04:03:26 PM »
Ama's on the left ;)
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JonathanC

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 04:41:54 PM »
I lay the blame of surfski showing up here squarely on Jonathan's shoulders  ;D 

 

Guilty as charged  :-[
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1paddle2paddle

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 11:05:30 AM »
Ama's on the left ;)
True dat.  The ama only prevents flipping to the left.  WTF was I thinking?

Kaihoe

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 10:48:08 PM »

Just for the sake of curiosity, since my ACE is 2011, how different is the 2012 model? Some local guys are already asking...my ACE is the first one ever in our waters.


From what we can tell comparing 12'6"s the 2012 seems to have a bit more rocker and volume at the front and the pin tail carries more volume at the back by not tapering as aggressively.  Supposedly these changes are to increase the stability.  We have had one guy go back to the 2011 model because he didn't like the 2012 as much, but he's a smaller guy with really good balance ( paddles a 23 NEW as well)

balance_fit

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 05:40:31 AM »

Just for the sake of curiosity, since my ACE is 2011, how different is the 2012 model? Some local guys are already asking...my ACE is the first one ever in our waters.


From what we can tell comparing 12'6"s the 2012 seems to have a bit more rocker and volume at the front and the pin tail carries more volume at the back by not tapering as aggressively.  Supposedly these changes are to increase the stability.  We have had one guy go back to the 2011 model because he didn't like the 2012 as much, but he's a smaller guy with really good balance ( paddles a 23 NEW as well)
Hi Kaihoe
It took me a couple of sessions in brisk waters to find the best position for stability in my 2011 ACE. I started standing quite ahead in the footwells, noticing the bow splashed too much and the initial stability was tricky, i went progressively backwards until the bow started 'hovering' over the water without splash, the board balanced out, and then i started to be more relaxed on it. In the process, i felt that bracing feet against sides of footwells helped quite a lot, specially when turning broadside to chop and wind. I ended up with toes flush with the aft drain hole, for my 165 lbs in general flatwater/chop paddling.
  If the 14' models for 2012 are following similar design modifications as the 12'6", i understand this will make the board more versatile, increasing it's range of use into choppier waters. It just remains to be seen if these changes don't affect the ACE's excellent speed, tracking and ease of bump catching.
Interestingly, i tried yesterday to find where the 25 inches of beam my board is supposed to have are....could only find 24" and some fractions... :)
Will take some video today on my local paddling spot...hope my olde Standard GoPro, mounted at the stern, shows a good view. 
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greatdane

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2012, 10:10:28 AM »
Ama's on the left ;)
True dat.  The ama only prevents flipping to the left.  WTF was I thinking?
I knew you didn't mean that (-:  I have just flipped an OC1 to the right so many times it's burned in my head!
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Argosi

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2012, 11:27:41 AM »


Hi Kaihoe
It took me a couple of sessions in brisk waters to find the best position for stability in my 2011 ACE. I started standing quite ahead in the footwells, noticing the bow splashed too much and the initial stability was tricky, i went progressively backwards until the bow started 'hovering' over the water without splash, the board balanced out, and then i started to be more relaxed on it. In the process, i felt that bracing feet against sides of footwells helped quite a lot, specially when turning broadside to chop and wind. I ended up with toes flush with the aft drain hole, for my 165 lbs in general flatwater/chop paddling.
  If the 14' models for 2012 are following similar design modifications as the 12'6", i understand this will make the board more versatile, increasing it's range of use into choppier waters. It just remains to be seen if these changes don't affect the ACE's excellent speed, tracking and ease of bump catching.
Interestingly, i tried yesterday to find where the 25 inches of beam my board is supposed to have are....could only find 24" and some fractions... :)
Will take some video today on my local paddling spot...hope my olde Standard GoPro, mounted at the stern, shows a good view. 

[/quote]

I've got a 12'6" NEW which is like the 2010 version of the Ace, just with a different name. When trying to find the ideal position to stand on the board, I like to get as much of the board's waterline engaged as possible. I figure this will result in less pushing of the water and better speed. For me, I stand near the front of the footwells on my board when in flat water. If I'm on a runner, I'll take 1 or 2 two-footed hops back to keep the nose from digging in to the wave in front.

I'm still working on riding the board in surf stance from the very back of the board and out of the foot wells. I find it very tricky standing on the tail of my board in surf stance. The 14' Ace has a flatter area behind the footwells that make it quite a bit easier to ride the tail in surf stance.

I think this board really excels in mild to moderate downwinders. It just seems to slip through the water effortlessly while letting you feel the bumps and paddle accordingly to catch them.

I have other boards that as fast or even faster in flat water but nothing is as much fun on a downwinder.

1paddle2paddle

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2012, 03:31:59 PM »
Ama's on the left ;)
True dat.  The ama only prevents flipping to the left.  WTF was I thinking?
I knew you didn't mean that (-:  I have just flipped an OC1 to the right so many times it's burned in my head!
Me too as to the flipping part.  I think what I was trying to say was that the habit of keeping the paddle lightly bracing on the right when on a surfski is a holdover from OC-1.  Never had to brace on the left on OC-1, and it feels a bit awkward on the ski.

balance_fit

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 05:10:56 PM »

I've got a 12'6" NEW which is like the 2010 version of the Ace, just with a different name. When trying to find the ideal position to stand on the board, I like to get as much of the board's waterline engaged as possible. I figure this will result in less pushing of the water and better speed. For me, I stand near the front of the footwells on my board when in flat water. If I'm on a runner, I'll take 1 or 2 two-footed hops back to keep the nose from digging in to the wave in front.

I'm still working on riding the board in surf stance from the very back of the board and out of the foot wells. I find it very tricky standing on the tail of my board in surf stance. The 14' Ace has a flatter area behind the footwells that make it quite a bit easier to ride the tail in surf stance.

I think this board really excels in mild to moderate downwinders. It just seems to slip through the water effortlessly while letting you feel the bumps and paddle accordingly to catch them.

I have other boards that as fast or even faster in flat water but nothing is as much fun on a downwinder.


Hi Argosi

I like this ACE 14' x 25" the more i paddle it ! I've been able to find it's sweet spot in heavy chop up to 2 feet, in all directions.
In my case, standing in the front of the footwells results in less stability compared to standing flush with the rear drain hole. The most forward i get is flush with both drain holes for catching a bump. Maybe if the wind were stronger here i wouldn't need to go that much forward.

Haven't done a bona fide downwind on it yet, but on my local paddling spot i've been able to ride a few bumps. Quite easy to catch them and once planing, rock solid stability. These are small 2 footers, so i haven't needed to go further back than one small hop from my favored stance spot. I feel that if i didn't hop back the nose wouldn't pearl, but might lose perfect trim.
 
As you say, i feel this sup excells in moderate downwinders and i am planning on doing one of those in the next few weeks.

Just today, i filmed 46 minutes of video at my local spot, quite choppy, but impressive stability ! In the process of edition... :P
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Kaihoe

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 11:47:10 PM »
Hey guys,

 I find that I'm standing back by the handles on both my 14 and 12'6" if I go forward I seem to loose the glide. It interesting as the general wisdom round here is to stand as far forward as possible.  I also find that I loose the stability if I stand right up the front when going downwind, so much so that I generally stay back and only go forward to drop down a wave. Then I have to run back really fast cause I accelerates down the wave so fast it's not funny ( and I end up in the water). I am running a bit more weight than balance_ fit about 200 lbs which makes the downwind trim and general balance challenging :o

 As far as stability in chop goes we are paddling ACEs in everything. On Tuesday's race we where dealing with 3 to 4' waves and 10+ knots, at an angle across the course. The pure downwind boards where slightly faster on the downwind leg, but with the ACEs speed I could pull them in and pass them upwind. These boards really fly upwind in rough conditions, the tail releases down the back of waves. We've even got a couple of guys who have worked out how to surf them down the line of a swell ( the rest of us are stuck with straight shooting)

 The 2012 changes seem to help with catching the larger swells, the increased rocker and volume at the front gives a bit more leeway on th drop before having to lift the bow.

 Argosi, demo a recent 25. Guys stepping up from the NEW are finding the recent ACEs a lot faster....although we do have some 23 NEWs going really fast as well

balance_fit

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2012, 10:16:52 AM »
Hello again ACES

While into discovering where to stand for optimum trim, stability and lift I had a friend paddle besides me, checking bow and stern balance. It all comes together right around the back drain hole for my weight.
The ACE is a different shape than a piercing bow with a V bottom, so I feel that standing too far forward won't allow the entry concave to do it's work. I felt my ACE come alive when I hit my 'correct' position.
Will correlate the different positions on windless flats by GPS reference soon.
Still have lots to learn from it, but so far I'm very happy with it's behavior.
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Argosi

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 08:13:41 AM »
Hey guys,

 I find that I'm standing back by the handles on both my 14 and 12'6" if I go forward I seem to loose the glide. It interesting as the general wisdom round here is to stand as far forward as possible.  I also find that I loose the stability if I stand right up the front when going downwind, so much so that I generally stay back and only go forward to drop down a wave. Then I have to run back really fast cause I accelerates down the wave so fast it's not funny ( and I end up in the water). I am running a bit more weight than balance_ fit about 200 lbs which makes the downwind trim and general balance challenging :o

 As far as stability in chop goes we are paddling ACEs in everything. On Tuesday's race we where dealing with 3 to 4' waves and 10+ knots, at an angle across the course. The pure downwind boards where slightly faster on the downwind leg, but with the ACEs speed I could pull them in and pass them upwind. These boards really fly upwind in rough conditions, the tail releases down the back of waves. We've even got a couple of guys who have worked out how to surf them down the line of a swell ( the rest of us are stuck with straight shooting)

 The 2012 changes seem to help with catching the larger swells, the increased rocker and volume at the front gives a bit more leeway on th drop before having to lift the bow.

 Argosi, demo a recent 25. Guys stepping up from the NEW are finding the recent ACEs a lot faster....although we do have some 23 NEWs going really fast as well


Interesting to hear that the Ace is a bit slower downwind than some of the pure downwind boards in those relativelymild 10+ knot conditions.  I would've thought that the Ace would be faster in mild to moderate downwind conditions. Curious to know which pure downwind boards performed better downwind.

As for upwind, I'm guessing that the Ace's relatively flat rocker compared with the downwind boards helped it there. 

I'm riding a 23.5" wide 12'6" NEW. I'll be able to demo the 14'x25" 2012 Ace in April or May. Are the guys in your area on the 14' Ace or 12'6" Ace? I can see how the extra length of the 14' would help its speed compared with the 12'6" NEW.

Personally, I'll want to see how the 14'x25" Ace compares with my 12'6"x23.5" NEW.


Kaihoe

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 09:29:44 PM »
Hi Argosi

 Looking back its probably a bit misleading. I think the downwind performance was due to my crap balance combining with leg cramps. The guys with more traditional rails had and easier time with the cross swell, don't think they were fundamentally faster though


Balance_fit. I've been trying out your foot position, it's too far back for me. I need to stand with my toes at the front hole or a little behind

balance_fit

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Re: Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2012, 05:35:08 AM »
Hi guys

After re-reading Kaihoe's experience i, as Argosi did, also became curious. I share with you my thoughts in this respect.

Cramping on the legs is a sign of fatigue and wrecks balance, which is a very delicate mechanism to start out with, that's a fact.

On light downwind conditions with 3-4 foot swells the speeds achieved are not so quick as to stabilize the ACE in such swells. More stable downwind boards may have an edge here, specially if the ACE paddler is suffering cramps.
 
Upwind, since the speed of the paddling and the water rushing past add up, the ACE becomes stable and it's paddler is able to catch the downwind boards which are not efficient against wind and chop as the ACE is.

I base my opinion in that on my local paddling spot, i face many changes of point of wind and swell. Sometimes up, side or downwind, strong or light winds, flatter or choppier conditions.
I've found that the ACE, in flatwater from a dead start, starts to stabilize at around GPS referenced 5 km/hr. Against wind and chop, it stabilizes at less speed, because of the water rushing past. Sideways to the wind and swell is an exercise in concentration under 5 kph, improving as speed goes up. Pivot turning in chop, squat down ! Downwind, once on a swell, i feel very confident in the board's stability, it's rock solid.

I'm adding some clips to a video i will be posting later today. In it i include all points of wind and swell, so that the ACE's behavior can be appreciated in these conditions, under my inexperienced skinny legs.

Off to paddle

Ah, Kaihoe, i will keep searching for the best speed/stance relationship with GPS referenced info. Will keep you posted.

Be well
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