Starboard ACE 14' x 25" first impressions in brushed carbon

[zacksc]

Roughly how much speed advantage does this have over an Open Ocean? 20% 30% (I know it depends on conditions and paddler. Your choice.)

[balance_fit]

Roughly how much speed advantage does this have over an Open Ocean? 20% 30% (I know it depends on conditions and paddler. Your choice.)

Zacksc

This is a very open question ! I feel that the paddler needs to test ACE vs OO back to back, gps referenced, both in flats and bump to have a rough idea of speed for each in either conditions and quantify differences. And test extensively.

In general, from the design specs, the OO is designed to allow the paddler to be in better position to go faster in a rough, blown out downwind because of rocker and width. If the downwind is small and/or light wind, the paddler on an ACE may have the advantage, if balance isn't an issue.

Going against wind, light or harder, in flatter waters, the ACE should have an edge over the OO. If the waters get rough, confused or the paddler has issues with balance, the OO paddler may have the edge.

In general, balance challenged paddlers could have more stability on the OO which may translate to speed, the rougher it gets.
Then, there is the Coastal Runner, an OO with less rocker and same width, possibly faster than the OO in flats and moderate downwinds. In this conditions, if balance challenged, the ACE paddler could have difficulty and the CR may be the answer.

There's zoners much better qualified to talk about these models than me.

I come from paddling a LahuiKai Mitcho 14, an excellent shape, and although a bit more stable than the ACE in some situations (pivot turning) it's blown away by the ACE in straight line speed and small downwinds. So, the extra stability available in turns on the LK, although it might help in short courses with many buoy turns, is not enough of a factor in all other straight line speed considerations.

You need to test each and all other similar models available. If the conditions you paddle regularly are predictable and within a narrow range of wind and swell you will be able to hit the correct board shape easier. If conditions vary wildly, you might need 2 boards or favor the design that helps you the most to handle the hardest situations.

Be well

[Kaihoe]

Kaihoe !

Just coming back from a rather wild session. Only 2 paddlers braved the conditions today at our spot. The ACE was brilliant, allowing me to paddle against 23 knot winds to setup for the short dw and repeat the circuit some 10 times.

Haven't been able to do the test. It's been blowing nonstop here for several weeks now. But, i got some info.
The toes flush with the aft drains now has become my downwind running stance.(My balance has improved, actually)
 I have migrated forward to toes flush with the fore drains for flats and catching bumps. Once on the bump, if not steering, a hop back to flush with aft drains. If steering is needed, opposite side foot goes flush with aft drains. If the bump becomes scary steep, a little hop further back is all i need.
If i try to catch bumps with my toes flush with the aft drains, the board just won't go or requires more exertion to take off. Hop forward to the fore drains, and fly.

Regarding paddling, i try to pull the blade out ahead of the feet, actually pulling it at the feet. I use a Werner Fuse, and if i pull further back it sounds like i'm lifting buckets..

Still got that GPS test in mind for when the winds subside....

Be well !

You've pretty much described where I stand, although I rarely get the far back, when I need my weight back I tend to lean back

BTW I had a chance to compare my 2011 with a 2012 the other day, the 2012 has better balance and feels lighter.  My 2011 is tail heavy in comparison

[balance_fit]

Balance_fit

Did you manage to do the GPS trial on your foot position? I find myself moving backwards and forwards and not getting as far back as you mentioned.

Cheers

Hi Kaihoe

Yesterday, while on a long, flat/choppy paddle session, i was able to get a flat windless spot and test gps speeds against stance positions.
I found better glide and speed with my toes flush with the front drain holes in pure windless flats.
Sliding back to toes halfway between drains didn't affect speed much but allowed for improved sidewind tracking.
Sliding back to toes flush with the rear drains (my favored small downwind stance so far)increased stability slightly but reduced glide and speed while increasing turning into side wind capability.

I weight 165 lbs...

Be well

[Kaihoe]

Roughly how much speed advantage does this have over an Open Ocean? 20% 30% (I know it depends on conditions and paddler. Your choice.)

Something like that

We've had a good paddler/waterman running a variety of boards at the local sprint races, he's was running surf race/oo style boards and finishing mid-20s, jumped on a 12'6" ACE an finished 10th. Any top 10 finisher in that series would make a respectable showing in an elite race.

I have powered past stronger paddlers on OO style boards when I'm on the ACE, these are guys I wouldn't be able to keep up with on a comparable board

[Kaihoe]

Balance_fit

Did you manage to do the GPS trial on your foot position? I find myself moving backwards and forwards and not getting as far back as you mentioned.

Cheers

Hi Kaihoe

Yesterday, while on a long, flat/choppy paddle session, i was able to get a flat windless spot and test gps speeds against stance positions.
I found better glide and speed with my toes flush with the front drain holes in pure windless flats.
Sliding back to toes halfway between drains didn't affect speed much but allowed for improved sidewind tracking.
Sliding back to toes flush with the rear drains (my favored small downwind stance so far)increased stability slightly but reduced glide and speed while increasing turning into side wind capability.

I weight 165 lbs...

Be well

Balance,

 My unscientific feel is I get bested glide standing about half way back, I go foward when I want to bust throguh chop going upwind, or for catching stuff and getting up to speed downwind. Once I'm at speed I tend to stay about half way between the drains. if I get much further back than that the board tends to stall. I'm 200lbs ......

[balance_fit]

Balance_fit

Did you manage to do the GPS trial on your foot position? I find myself moving backwards and forwards and not getting as far back as you mentioned.

Cheers

Hi Kaihoe

Yesterday, while on a long, flat/choppy paddle session, i was able to get a flat windless spot and test gps speeds against stance positions.
I found better glide and speed with my toes flush with the front drain holes in pure windless flats.
Sliding back to toes halfway between drains didn't affect speed much but allowed for improved sidewind tracking.
Sliding back to toes flush with the rear drains (my favored small downwind stance so far)increased stability slightly but reduced glide and speed while increasing turning into side wind capability.

I weight 165 lbs...

Be well

Balance,

 My unscientific feel is I get bested glide standing about half way back, I go foward when I want to bust throguh chop going upwind, or for catching stuff and getting up to speed downwind. Once I'm at speed I tend to stay about half way between the drains. if I get much further back than that the board tends to stall. I'm 200lbs ......

Excellent info Kaihoe

I still got to practice way more on my ACE. Haven't been on it 10 times yet ! Will be working with the 'between drains' stance positions and hopefully get another downwinder set to explore how it goes.

The truth is that this ACE really flies...

Be well

[Kaihoe]

Some more insight....

Just did an Offshore, cross/downwinder today SW 15+ knots on a NNW shoreline, and did the reverse run yesterday with a NE and 4 foot NE swell (our weather is nuts at the moment).

With the majority of the swell coming from  the side I'm spending a lot of time with the opposite foot forward and steering the board on the bow (the funky displacement style steering where your pushing the outer fornt down to steer - like skis), when things are going well I have been back behind the drain holes. When I've lost the swell or genarlly not feeling it I've been along way foward. I even had my right foot psat the front of the foot well this morning.

And just for interest I did a quick measure on my 2011. The widest point is 24.5" inches

[balance_fit]

Kaihoe
Looks like you got the ACE pretty well understood. In my case, 4 ft swells on a downwinder, even in the most perfect wind and swell match would be quite a challenge.
But your insight is very informative, and I should practice that stance whenever a similar combination of conditions arise here. Almost all downwinders I've done so far on the ACE are side offshore conditions in which the steering I favor is towards shore, at the expense of catching runs, for the sake of safety.
 In some instances I've been able to chase a run by using a stance similar to yours. Even so, I've kept the reins held back on the ACE...just a bit of power downwind and the board seems to want to take off without me !
Be well