Author Topic: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?  (Read 8370 times)

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2012, 09:21:51 PM »
The same gender rule does not make sense to me.
Come to think of it, what's the reasoning behind the same class rule?
If I was hoping to place in a race, I would prefer to have someone in a different class draft behind me so if they sprint and pass me in the end, it would not really bother me, since they are in a different class.
If someone on a 14' can hang with the unlimited boards, is that so bad?
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Kaihoe

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2012, 10:03:01 PM »
I think that small contact explosives should be placed on the tails of all boards. They should be set to explode at different forces depending on impact strength and same class or not.

Love it and the guys who's explosive goes off gets a push from it

Easy Rider

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2012, 08:55:19 AM »
Good to hear some feed back on these rules: Kaihoe agree with you the rules should be reviewed for mistakes.  It does seem there are a few who would like to keep the women behind them; 14' foot for men 12' 6" for women, and gender drafting.  I can't see the 360 rule working, "Hey you do a 360, no two 360s that is a major violation.....Wait I need to write down your number...where is my pencil and paper....Hey and that is not a protest flag so quit raising that finger to me!" :) Seems like they are forgetting the roots of the sport, and the Aloha vibe..... Has anyone been in a race where they would tell someone else to do a 360 or 720?


Exactly. 
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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2012, 09:37:16 AM »
Wow, a little scotch has a very bad effect on my spelling. "What are we? Farmers?" (my favorite Alec Baldwin line).

All rulebooks suck. But they generally make the racing better. The rule books for car racing hit the table with a thud, but racing without them is pointless. In the dim past of car racing there were breakaway organizations formed by members who got tired of the rules and started something simpler. Which either died quickly or evolved their own massive rule set. Even crap car races like the Le Mons (lemons) races have hefty rule sets, along with popular random penalties like crushing violators cars.

It's a good thing--part of the evolution of the sport. Wait till it gets an Olympic element. Of course the Olympic class with be something no one does--like racing round-bottomed inflatables with broomsticks for paddles.
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natas585

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2012, 03:26:31 PM »
After having been in multiple races where I have seen drafting utilized in almost every one this past year.  What I have noticed is that the more experienced racers are communicating when they are around each other either going into a buoy or in a drafting situation.  I have even heard some of the best in the world talking before a start to coordinate which side they would start paddling when the gun went off.  The drafting is here to stay and I will use it as part of my race strategy whenever possible.  Even when you are not right behind someone it certainly helps keep the pace up when you might feel like slowing.  I did notice that when I had someone drafting me for a few miles my stroke remained strong.  It would be interesting to know if it was due to less turbulence behind me or that I felt pushed knowing someone was right behind me.  We did switch off throughout the race but communicating was key. 
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CMC

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2012, 08:44:01 PM »
The same gender rule does not make sense to me.
Come to think of it, what's the reasoning behind the same class rule?
If I was hoping to place in a race, I would prefer to have someone in a different class draft behind me so if they sprint and pass me in the end, it would not really bother me, since they are in a different class.
If someone on a 14' can hang with the unlimited boards, is that so bad?

Yeah it kind of is.  If you're on a 14' and sit on a much faster 17' wash you pull away at a way faster rate than others on 14's.  It's simply to stop people using much faster craft to gain an advantage.  If you stay on the wash of someone in your own class theoretically anybody else in that class can paddle as fast as the person you are wash riding.  Not that big of an advantage.

ObviousSup

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2012, 11:27:54 PM »
Wait so now we have to be able to judge size accurately??
"What are you talking about I swear that board was a 14'!"

Kaihoe

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2012, 11:30:14 PM »
The same gender rule does not make sense to me.
Come to think of it, what's the reasoning behind the same class rule?
If I was hoping to place in a race, I would prefer to have someone in a different class draft behind me so if they sprint and pass me in the end, it would not really bother me, since they are in a different class.
If someone on a 14' can hang with the unlimited boards, is that so bad?

Yeah it kind of is.  If you're on a 14' and sit on a much faster 17' wash you pull away at a way faster rate than others on 14's.  It's simply to stop people using much faster craft to gain an advantage.  If you stay on the wash of someone in your own class theoretically anybody else in that class can paddle as fast as the person you are wash riding.  Not that big of an advantage.

Is this just a theory or does anyone have real life experience with this?

My experience of trying to stay in the draft of longer baors is that it is very hard to achieve, basically you have to sprint.  There might be a mental advantage in chasing the faster board, but I don't know if there is a draft advantage.

Kaihoe

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2012, 11:33:36 PM »
Wait so now we have to be able to judge size accurately??
"What are you talking about I swear that board was a 14'!"

It will only work of the race organisers provide a visual reference i.e. different coloured shirts so in other words more cost.  There are far too many manufacturers who make 12'6" and 14"s that look the same.  We don't get many unlimiteds but I bet you'd have to look more than twice to tell the different between 14" and 17" Naishs when they are in the water

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2012, 01:10:22 AM »
The same gender rule does not make sense to me.
Come to think of it, what's the reasoning behind the same class rule?
If I was hoping to place in a race, I would prefer to have someone in a different class draft behind me so if they sprint and pass me in the end, it would not really bother me, since they are in a different class.
If someone on a 14' can hang with the unlimited boards, is that so bad?

Yeah it kind of is.  If you're on a 14' and sit on a much faster 17' wash you pull away at a way faster rate than others on 14's.  It's simply to stop people using much faster craft to gain an advantage.  If you stay on the wash of someone in your own class theoretically anybody else in that class can paddle as fast as the person you are wash riding.  Not that big of an advantage.

Is this just a theory or does anyone have real life experience with this?

My experience of trying to stay in the draft of longer baors is that it is very hard to achieve, basically you have to sprint.  There might be a mental advantage in chasing the faster board, but I don't know if there is a draft advantage.

It works, no doubt.  The picture I posted at the beginning of this thread shows Danny Ching Drafting on a 14' behind Jim Terrell and Thomas Maximus on unlimited boards. 

I raced in the 2009 Tahoe Fall classic (22 miles) on a 12'6 and drafted behind unlimited boards for 2/3 of the way and finished in under 4 hours.  At that time there were no rules against it, I guess under the new rules I would have been disqualified.
Robert Stehlik
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pdxmike

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2012, 02:11:41 AM »
All racers on shorter boards have an equal opportunity to draft behind longer boards, so why not allow it?  It does stretch out the distance between finishers within a class (i.e. the racers fast enough to get in behind the longer boards will finish further ahead of their competitors than they would have without being able to draft off the longer boards).  But on the other hand, that's true as well when drafting is allowed only within a class (because the racers who can get into the fastest drafting pack will win by more over the slower racers than they would if drafting was banned). 

Allowing drafting between classes means getting a fast start is critical, because you want to get in with the longer class boards before they pull away.  But that's also already true with drafting allowed only within classes, because you have to start fast to get into as fast a drafting pack as you can. 

So it seems like if drafting is allowed at all, getting rid of the restrictions for class and gender doesn't really change anything for the worse, but it would get rid of some complications.
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gorgebob

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2012, 10:22:33 PM »
Separate the starts. Faster start first. No rules. If your fast enough to catch and draft a faster board that started ahead, good for you.
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TallDude

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2012, 11:03:31 PM »
I raced cycles for years and being 6'-7" and having to ride a large frame bike, I could never benefit from anyones draft. I'd look behind me after tuning out for a while, and there would a whole train drafting me. Just not fair. So find me a 6'-8" 250# sup racer, and I'll draft him. Here is some good info on drafting in the water, that I found a few years ago. http://www.huki.com/index.php?page=Drafting . Now being that I design in CAD for a living, back to another kind of  drafting....
Quit working and grab your board...

peterp

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2012, 09:27:39 AM »
Dis-allow drafting? - trying to uphold drafting rules and sussing who you may or may not draft and calling out 360's mid-course???Pleeeezzzzz.

I'm with Gorgebob - find a tow and you're good, miss it, and you are doomed - it's all part of the racing-strategy.

And no, it does not benefit the guy in front in anyway whatsoever except perhaps make him work harder.

Anyone calling for no drafting, is racing for all the wrong reasons....they should get a GPS and find a secluded spot.

Kaihoe

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Re: Another look at drafting- does it help both the leader and the follower?
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2012, 12:53:28 PM »
Peter

 Good call. Those who don't like drafting can go compare engines at run sprint races and run in lanes.  Practically this is the only way to stop drafting.

Bob

 Your on to some here as well. If the race organizer doesn't want cross class drafting start them separately. We often run with surf skis, they run a longer course and get started first

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