Author Topic: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle  (Read 551770 times)

PaddleCrazy

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #315 on: February 13, 2012, 11:37:43 PM »
Bill,

Got a chance to finally give one of your paddles a try.  All I can say is WOW!!!

What a difference between my "no name, package deal" paddle and your fine piece of equipment.  Even just picking it up on the beach, and the differences were immediately noticeable.  The weight difference alone was amazing and the feel of the thinner handle (compared to mine) was instantly more comfortable.

Once on the water, the smaller paddle surface (was only able to demo the Wiki) had better "bite and stability" (my uninformed words, hope they make sense) were far better than my paddle, even with its larger surface.

What was really interesting, that being able to go back and forth from my paddle to the Wiki, I realized for the first time what "paddle flutter" (dealers words) was.  All the times I had paddled previously, I was never aware of how my paddle actually moved through the water, until I compared it how every stroke of the Wiki was solid and consistent, without any movement, other than the straight pull from point A to point B.

I'm now just waiting for "SUP-POSITION Paddle Boards" (Ralph is fantastic Bill, excellent choice) to get their next shipment of Malikos in, and I too will be a Ke Nalu convert.

Thank you Bill, for all of your help, and for creating such an excellent product.  You've made me a believer.

Takeo

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #316 on: February 14, 2012, 10:43:50 AM »
Here's a video from this past weekend.  Paddling the 2012 Naish Glide 14 using the KeNalu Maliko.  Not the best downwind conditions but this goes to show how nicely the paddle works into swells, in the chop, and in the flats! Love the new Naish Glide and love the KeNalu paddles!


PonoBill

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #317 on: February 14, 2012, 11:04:00 AM »
Looking Good Takeo.

You've got to hop over and do some Malikos with HM and I. I've got an extra Bullet, no need for lugging boards. It's going to get better and better from here on--February is supposed to be flat but it's been windy--whitecaps to the horizon right now at 9:00 AM. Sucks for surfing, but good Maliko runs.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

PonoBill

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #318 on: February 15, 2012, 02:05:54 AM »
I have a wing blade working. Or at least working pretty darned well. I built it on a wiki blade. Monster catch when it's stroked properly. If you pull it straight back it doesn't do much, but push down and the catch increases by a bunch.

Turns out I was trying too hard, the stability issue went away when I made the curves more subtle, and the lift may have actually increased. I think the flow was separating. Makes a wicked vortex, but doesn't wobble.

More later.

"some people calls it a Kaiser blade, but I calls it a wing blade".
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Henrik F

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #319 on: February 15, 2012, 07:16:39 AM »
I have a wing blade working. Or at least working pretty darned well. I built it on a wiki blade. Monster catch when it's stroked properly. If you pull it straight back it doesn't do much, but push down and the catch increases by a bunch.

Turns out I was trying too hard, the stability issue went away when I made the curves more subtle, and the lift may have actually increased. I think the flow was separating. Makes a wicked vortex, but doesn't wobble.

More later.

"some people calls it a Kaiser blade, but I calls it a wing blade".

What is a wing blade?

Henrik F
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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #320 on: February 15, 2012, 07:46:39 AM »
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.

gorgebob

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #321 on: February 15, 2012, 08:38:55 AM »
Bill
Check if the customer of the busted paddle wears a ring. We had a issue where the paddle was worn at that spot where the ring made contact. After thousands of strokes on hundreds of days it made sense.
Founder: Gorge Performance Surf  Shop Portland
Fabricator: RNR Engineering

Henrik F

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #322 on: February 15, 2012, 09:05:49 AM »
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.

Thanks!!! Now I get it.

Cheers

Henrik F
crosswater.se

Takeo

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #323 on: February 15, 2012, 11:11:48 AM »
Looking Good Takeo.

You've got to hop over and do some Malikos with HM and I. I've got an extra Bullet, no need for lugging boards. It's going to get better and better from here on--February is supposed to be flat but it's been windy--whitecaps to the horizon right now at 9:00 AM. Sucks for surfing, but good Maliko runs.

Thanks for the offer Bill! It is my dream to one day do a Maliko run! For now, doing a lot of work for a short glide or two! Your paddles have definitely made it a lot more fun! I got the Maliko and the Wiki both cut at 11" over, down from 13" over, way less shoulder strain.  The paddles catch so strong, have to protect the shoulders!

PonoBill

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #324 on: February 15, 2012, 04:01:49 PM »
A wing paddle is a giant source of misconceptions, and I doubt that PB's experiments are with traditional wing paddles anyway since they can only be used on one side of a boat.  That's why there are wing kayak and surfski paddles, since each blade can be made for that side of the boat, while there are no wing canoe paddles.

However, a traditional wing paddle could be incorporated into paddle boarding by using a double-bladed paddle, and perhaps a sliding stroke to change sides.  Imagine a SUP paddle of normal length but with blades on each end instead of a handle.  After stoking "Connor-style" a few times on one side of the board, tilt the paddle and let it slide through your hands so that the other blade becomes the lower blade for the other side of the board.  The "sliding stroke" is not new, and was used by Inuit kayak paddlers in combination with a shorter "storm paddle" so as to minimize wind resistance against the upper blade.

It's not that difficult to understand wing paddles. People think of paddles as pushing water backwards, and certainly the momentum of the water equals the momentum of the board and person, but it's not just the water on the front of the blade but ALL the water that has some velocity applied to it with a vector component in the opposite direction of the board travel. So even water being squirted off to the side at a rearward angle is contributing to your forward momentum.

Of greatest interest after the water in front of the blade is the water behind the blade. Wing paddles work by generating lift, which does a better job of imparting a velocity to the mass of water behind the paddle. Without lift the water motion behind the paddle is more random which requires work to generate but doesn't add much momentum. What I'm working on is increasing the lift of the back of the blade, which is exactly what the swedes did when they invented wing paddles in the 80's.

For a stroke that is straight back--for example, one using just the lower arm to pull the blade straight back--there isn't any wing effect available to speak of. But most intermediate and advanced paddlers stroke downward, with a stiff lower arm. Some even lock both arms and move the paddle as the base of a triangle using shoulder and core rotation. This imparts a lot of downward motion to the blade and creates an opportunity for lift.

Our paddles already have a fair amount of wing lift. The low offset angle and the curved back generates lift off the back with a downward stroke. That's one reason why some people say our paddles catch "way above their size" and others wonder what they are talking about.

What I'm up to is getting more of this lift by curving the back more and directing the flow in the back of the paddle toward the center. The result doesn't look much like an epic, it's not intended to slice the water horizontally. I didn't have any problem getting lift, in fact it's easy to get too much. What I had a problem with was making it stable and keeping it centered. At first it generated wobble. When I fixed that it would sometimes fail to lift even if the stroke was good. So you'd get ten strokes with huge catch and one that felt like the blade fell off. I think I've got it solved. Now I need to move from blue foam glued to a blade to a fiberglass prototype and see what it does, then we'll decide if it's worth building these.

If nothing else it's kept me off the streets at night.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:26:37 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

stoneaxe

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #325 on: February 15, 2012, 07:25:56 PM »
I'm pumped...I've got 6 carbon fiber beauties in my living room. Time to get the blow dryer out.... ;D
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

ENCINITAS_SUP

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #326 on: February 17, 2012, 04:06:59 PM »
Just about ready to pull the trigger but really can't decide between the molokai and maliko.

I'm 5'10" 225, pretty strong guy, trying to work on my Tahitian stroke, spend most sessions trolling for waves up and down the coast on my 10'4" PSH.  I'll cover 2 or 3 miles up and down the coast during a session.   Anyone paddled both the molokai and the maliko and could give me their thoughts on how they compare. 

I use a paddle with a 90 sq in. blade now and I often don't find the catch very satisfying and feel that I could apply a lot more power to a bigger blade.

 

Thanks

Dwight (DW)

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #327 on: February 17, 2012, 04:26:15 PM »
Just about ready to pull the trigger but really can't decide between the molokai and maliko.

I'm 5'10" 225, pretty strong guy, trying to work on my Tahitian stroke, spend most sessions trolling for waves up and down the coast on my 10'4" PSH.  I'll cover 2 or 3 miles up and down the coast during a session.   Anyone paddled both the molokai and the maliko and could give me their thoughts on how they compare. 

I use a paddle with a 90 sq in. blade now and I often don't find the catch very satisfying and feel that I could apply a lot more power to a bigger blade.

 

Thanks

You should tell us the brand of that 90 sq in paddle. All 90 sq inchers are not created equal. Then we can tell you about how much extra power the KeNalu might have.

ENCINITAS_SUP

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #328 on: February 17, 2012, 04:37:56 PM »
Its an Xpaddle if I'm not mistaken.  I'm trying to step up from a civic to a ferrari here ;D

PonoBill

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Re: review of the Ke Nalu (Pono Bill) paddle
« Reply #329 on: February 17, 2012, 05:00:50 PM »
If you think you want a lot of catch, then go for the Molokai. it's going to be a shock, you're going to absolutely think it's too big. But you really should have as big a blade as you feel you can manage, it's more efficient and it gives you more torque to turn and launch from. Maliko is the safe bet, but if you make the Molokai work for you it will be a big deal. I went to a Molokai for my surf blade. Once you stop pulling hard on it, it's a revelation.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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