Author Topic: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.  (Read 44286 times)

Praxis

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2011, 04:17:16 AM »
Well we all know why, it's a sweet pic of a amazing rider. I am just interested in finding out what their spinmasters are going to say about this one. The other time they got called out they stated that they always show their riders on Starboard product. Well Starboard what's the story this time. Love to hear a response please.

Regarding the impertinent response to my comment... You can assume they did it intentionally. For the sake of objectivity, I prefer to at least consider the possibility there was an error. It's lame regardless and I lose respect for a company when they do this whatever the reason. It's false advertising, but I would at least like to hear their explanation before calling it outright fraud. Either way, there does seem to be a pattern emerging with starboard and this type of thing, and I'm all for calling BS on matters like this when needed. Gotta say that JL baby bombora is looking solid off the bottom in that shot.
I wasn't try to be impertinent, cheeky would be a better choice  ;D
"Hey you want to see a funny video" Jimmy

PonoBill

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #61 on: May 21, 2011, 06:23:01 AM »
Could be a touch of Asian Intellectual Property Flu, where a company says "we're immune, we're in Thailand" but then discover when their product lands elsewhere that the local laws very much apply. Of course someone who was directly harmed would have to complain.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

pdxmike

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #62 on: May 21, 2011, 10:56:39 PM »
This stuff is serious, I design for a living, if someone steals your intellectual property it matters. Behavior like this is no different than walking out of a shop with the cash register drawer....if anything its actually worse.
Stoneaxe sums up what I think, not surprising because I design things for a living also. 

The Starboard response was bizarre.  It just referred to and copied their response about their "bad photoshopping" of a few months ago.  It would have been much better to not respond at all.  Their "response" told us that that writing another response wasn't worth their time.  That's too bad Starboard feel that way, but it's their right--but weird that they want people to know it.  Either that, or they think we are too dumb to notice.  Or even worse, they still think they didn't do anything very wrong.  Actually, the fact that they put quotes around "wrong" the first time shows they didn't feel too bad about what they did then, either. 

But the bad photoshopping didn't involve anyone else.  It's main impact was internal--making Starboard look sloppy.  This time, they pulled in someone else--Jimmy Lewis--into their sloppiness without his permission.  They tried to pass off his board as their own.  It makes no difference what kind of constraints they were under, or what the likelihood was that using it would cause any problems for Jimmy Lewis.  It simply wasn't their right to make the decision to use that photo--it was Jimmy Lewis's.

If Starboard really does think that the same apology they used for the bad photoshopping has any applicability to this instance, they're clueless.  The entire apology consisted of listing all constraints they faced, and how the end justified the means.  So either Starboard feels it's fine to steal as long as the benefit to them or "the sport" outweighs the loss to the owner, or Starboard still doesn't understand that it is wrong to portray someone else's work as their own.

Plus, if Starboard did believe its own apology--i.e. that time constraints prevented shooting a new photo and it was important to get their new rider into the catalog--why didn't they simply add a tiny note under the photo noting that the new rider was on a Jimmy Lewis board?  The answer can only be that either they didn't want anyone to know that, or it didn't even occur to them that what they did was wrong.  Both are damning.

Starboard certainly makes great boards, and certainly does a lot for the sport.  But that doesn't change the fact that-- whether it was intentional or not--they cheated.  They should at least man up to that. 


southwesterly

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2011, 11:21:25 PM »
To quote Jerry Seinfeld, "Nothing funny about that."

PT Woody

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2011, 02:41:08 AM »
... This stuff is serious, I design for a living, if someone steals your intellectual property it matters. Behavior like this is no different than walking out of a shop with the cash register drawer....if anything its actually worse.

It sounds like you're jumping to the conclusion that the photographer was not compensated for the photo?  I would hope and assume the opposite.  If not, your point is valid.

No doubt this is a PR screw up of substantial proportions but as you say, the claims of theft are a little presumptuous. I suspect Jimmy Lewis has no copyright claim on the image at all. That matter is entirely between the photographer, Connor Baxter, and Starboard.

sylvano

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2011, 04:26:11 AM »
...

stoneaxe

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2011, 08:53:44 AM »
I was referring to the use of the JL board in the photo not the photo itself.

Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

Starboard

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2011, 10:01:11 PM »
Dear All,

Yes, it is true. Connor Baxter is riding a custom shaped board. At the time we had no Gun available in our range and Connor needed one for training in the big waves. JL is a good friend of ours so he helped Connor. He later on sent us a few photos, which we thought were really nice so we decided to help the photographer and rider by giving them some exposure, once we had a Gun to offer in the range.
While we are on this subject, I like to let you know that our Team is a valued resource in our R&D development. Each board goes through a lot of different prototype phases before a master board can be approved. These prototypes are taken all around the world, being tested in all types of conditions by our elite riders. Then they are being brought back to our workshop for fine tuning and back out again, and again. This is usually around the same time as photos are collected for the catalogue. (please keep in mind that due to printing and shipping, the catalogue needs to be finalized approximately 4 months before you see the new products in the store, while the products often are getting improved on a longer period of time.) This is no short-cut for us, but we chose to work this way since it is giving us a better result. We can understand your point and we will defiantly take it in to consideration for the future. I hope that you can also try to see it from our point of view.

All the best
Margareta Engstrom

DavidJohn

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2011, 03:44:15 AM »
Thanks Margareta for your post and explaining your side of this.. mole-hill..  ;D

DJ

CMC

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2011, 04:42:12 AM »
Great thread, very entertaining.

This stuff happens in every surf industry catalogue I have read.  I really love Jimmy Lewis email though, sticks in the boot and then Starboard say he's there great friend.  All is fair in love and business eh.

Isn't Jimmy the guy that said he doesnt actually paddle SUP and copied outlines and designs from his sons shortboards??

PonoBill

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2011, 07:39:55 AM »
First thing you have to know about Jimmy Lewis is that he shoots from the hip, says exactly what on his mind, with NO PR filter. He's not careful, doesn't spend time worrying about what people think. Zero. When I read the comment in his email it was like standing in his shop talking to him. He's just saying what he's thinking right then.

Jimmy SUPs. He's a lot better and happier on a longboard, but he rides his boards. As far as copying his son's shortboards goes, he generally builds those too, so I don't really understand what that would mean. A couple of years ago I was at his shop and he was building a tiny little board, so thin and so small I wondered what it could be. "Oh, it's a shortboard for my kid" says Jimmy. What??  I figured his kid must be 3'6", but Jimmy told me he's about my height. Seriously, it looked like I'd need one for each foot.

I don't have any problem recognizing the progression of Jimmy's boards, and he's ALWAYS gone his own way. Of all the shapers that could be accused of copying, Jimmy's the last one I'd pick. He and Bill Foote are a lot alike in one sense. The term "my way" could be tattooed on their forehead. Stiff necked buggers.

On another note, I understand what Margeta is saying and I appreciate her response, but I'd suggest it's time for Starboard to worry first about reputation and second about expediency and exposure of athletes and photographers. They already have a few thousand core SUP buyers/owners/enthusiasts that think any picture from Starboard could well be fake, and some of those have a nagging suspicion that the reason for that is that Starboard boards don't perform adequately to really be in those pictures. That's not a result I would be looking for.

Many companies have come to understand that social platforms (like the Zone) are a critical marketing element and that they have a characteristic that is radically different from traditional marketing: You can't lie. Or at least you can't lie stupidly. When advertising budgets owned the media you could get away with bullshit. People who detected it had no voice. Now everyone does, and when they catch you they yank your pants down public-ally.  It is literally the most important trend in advertising in the past 50 years. Marketers are having a hard time adjusting, and it's funny watching them flop around.

Well, funny for a guy who is retired from that game and doesn't have to join in the flopping.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Strand Leper

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2011, 08:11:58 AM »
Great perspective Bill... that pesky interweb!

The funny thing is... the picture that Sylvano posted... with Connor (?) on the beach with his gun... THAT picture made me want that board...

A really easy solution for the future for Starboard would be to put the pic of the athlete in action in the catalog... on whatever they happen to be riding... disclose it discretely "Connor Baxter on Gun Protoype shaped by JL..." and then put Connor and his Starboard in a thumbnail or smaller pic superimposed on the large pic...

All issues solved.  Athlete, exposed.  Starboard model, featured.  Integrity, maintained.

Bill may have an issue or two with the visual... but I think it could work quite well.

Anyway, I hope that SB gets its act together on this issue... because it matters.

Tim
American Saltwater Angler Magazine's Seven Time Angler of the Year.* Founder and former CEO of "Fishstrong" an organization devoted to the fight against fishbait-hands-smell discrimination.

* subject to revocation due to a pending investigation by the FDA (fisherman drug association)

PonoBill

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2011, 08:23:26 AM »
I wrote something about truth and advertising in the social age, but can't seem to find it. I started writing a book about these kind of things, but made the mistake of going back and reading what I wrote. Decided it was aging faster than crab salad and was mostly arrogant blather. In the unlikely event someone is interested this is perhaps the most relevant chapter to this issue: http://www.automarq.com/2009/11/chapter-1/
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

pdxmike

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2011, 08:35:25 AM »
Bill--you did sum it up well.  I'm looking forward to reading your arrogant aging blather--although having just finished watching the dvds of Mad Men, I'm already an advertising expert myself. 

Strand Leper, I agree--a small note would make a big difference.  The fact that it could have been done this time so easily but wasn't was a mark against Starboard, but doing it next time would change that around.  And if this stuff really does go on in all the catalogs, it would set Starboard apart in a positive way. 


outcast

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Re: Take a look at page 52 2011 starboard catalog.
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2011, 09:12:09 AM »
He's how i vote:

I'm not going to buy a Starboard.

Not genuine.....nor are the guys towing in at Peahi with a paddle in hand just  to get a photo shot

Every brand will test designs (even from other shapers).......it's a whole 'nother thing to mis-represent your product so blantantly....it just doesn't pass the smell test

and I don't expect most production boards to be tweaked missiles.
Too many for the rack
Some in the shack
Some under decks
Some have straps

 


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