Messages

16

Gear Talk / Re: Is it normal for paddle handles to snap off?

« on: August 26, 2020, 02:25:45 PM »

Multiple moving parts and water don't mix well

17

Gear Talk / Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board

« on: August 26, 2020, 02:23:47 PM »

If those conditions are typical then the Waterline would be a good choice, and you are wasting your time with inflatables:)

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Gear Talk / Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board

« on: August 26, 2020, 01:39:37 PM »

The waterline will be quite a lot faster in flat water than any similar width inflatable. And you don't need to pump it up. And it will last longer, and won't go.pop.or hiss and leave you stranded. That's quite a lot of advantages.

Inflatables don't go really fast - any of them. They start to bounce and oscillate and flex too much when you really start putting the power down. They can make decent speedy cruisers for the average paddler though.

With that nose I should think the Waterline would be fast enough to race in a pure flat water distance race. Just as long as there was no significant chop or technical stuff like buoy turns etc.

This concept of board has been tried before. The problem.is that the nose imparts so much roll.thst the board needs to be wide and the tail fat. This then limits the speed somewhat. But it can work well for flat water paddlers who don't race much and just want an efficient board.

19

Gear Talk / Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board

« on: August 26, 2020, 08:52:26 AM »

Burchas has made an interesting suggestion. Here is a review of the Waterline by one of our local retailers. Tony is a good guy and always strives to give balanced reviews of products. It is is clear that this is a board for low-wind flat water conditions, but if those are your conditions it could be a great choice and economical too. Tony doesn't say anything about ghr construction and the price precludes fancy materials, but presumably the Starboard will say how it is constructed.

20

Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 25, 2020, 06:55:54 AM »

Incidentally, if the 2020 Bayonet really does weigh less than the 2020 RS 14x24.5 then I might actually prefer to paddke the Bayonet in flat water, even though I'm not a big guy. The longer boards are more stable for their width and  paddling an UL feels more special. But since you can't race an UL that would be one downside - but my days of racing are behind me anyway- been there, done that: too much drama, commitment and expense.

21

Gear Talk / Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board

« on: August 25, 2020, 06:49:04 AM »

Its a full-on dugout, and personally I'd avoid one until you've trued a dugout. Some people love them (mostly those who never fall in) but others hate them. They are difficult to get back in after a fall and they may fill up with water like a big bath if you do. But if you sre a keen racer with superb skills they can be a devastating weapon.

The NSP boards tend to be fast but roll side to side a bit. Thus is how their team riders like them.

The construction looks to be less durable than a full PVC sandwich.

But I haven't paddled this board.

22

Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 25, 2020, 06:25:14 AM »

Its all about power to weight and balance, and the reason why gymnasts are so small (plus the nature of our races and the equipment, each of which has emerged out of surf/boardsports culture, not rowing/sailing culture).

An elite rower who had competed successfully at international level once told me that he was too small to be ideal for rowing, but too big to be ideal for SUP.

Haha, I hear you on this. I'm kinda in the same 'boat' (pun intended). I'm 192cm and 83kg. I did notice that in the 2019 SUP World Championships, Sebastian Brendel (3x gold medalist C1 canoe) was a ways off the top guys in both the long distance and sprint races. In the long distance race he was ~ 9 mins. behind the winner (Booth) and in the sprint he was 8 seconds behind Connor Baxter. I mean overall he did great in all the races with high finishes in the long (15th) and sprint (12th) events but still a ways off the top guys.

Yeah, several times now the top guys from other paddlesports have tried their hand against the elite SUP racers. Because the training of SUP racers is extremely amateurish compared to something like rowing, and there is little formal technique coaching in SUP, these outsiders have generally expected to show the ramshackle and largely self-taught SUP elite a thing or two. But mostly they have instead got their asses kicked. These kids who have grown up doing their own thing having fun in the ocean all day are pretty darned fit and are superb athletes whether they train like Olympic rowers or not.

23

Gear Talk / Re: Seeking feedback before getting a new board

« on: August 25, 2020, 02:06:27 AM »

The 2020 SIC RS boards are made in the same factory as the Infinity boards, using a similar construction, so will be similar in durability (and are both full PVC sandwich I think, which is what you want).  The Infinity uses a brushed carbon finish which tends to hide dings and scrapes better - but mainly because a brushed carbon finish looks well-used even when new.

IMO the Starboard raceboards are built with the racer in mind who is happy to buy a new board every season, and almost throw the old one away. They tend to be quite expensive for the materials that are used to construct them.

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Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 25, 2020, 01:49:22 AM »

Its all about power to weight and balance, and the reason why gymnasts are so small (plus the nature of our races and the equipment, each of which has emerged out of surf/boardsports culture, not rowing/sailing culture).

An elite rower who had competed successfully at international level once told me that he was too small to be ideal for rowing, but too big to be ideal for SUP.

25

Gear Talk / Re: Is it normal for paddle handles to snap off?

« on: August 25, 2020, 01:40:04 AM »

Those leverlock handles do fail sometimes. As others have said, treat yourself to a decent paddle. I agree, Quickblade, Ke Nalu, ZRE are all very good. I have about 30 paddles from many brands and have owned many more in the past. Most have their pros and cons, but the most consistently good designs and constructions have been from Quickblade. They tend to be a bit expensive. But you get what you pay for, as you have discovered.

26

Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 23, 2020, 03:05:07 AM »

It is certainly possible that the 17ft 2020 Bayonet is 25lbs - making it something like 9lbs lighter than the 2019 one - since the factory is different now, and the construction too. The 2020 Bayonet 17 construction is only a single layer of carbon plus one of glass in most places, with PVC and carbon reinforcement in the srandinh area and three layers of carbon on the rails. It is NOT full PVC sandwich all over, unlike the 2020 RS, and the lack of PVC will sane quite a but of weight. What will add weight though is the steering mechanism and plumbing. Plus the 17ft is around 350L, and the deck pad will be longer etc.

I would worry about the durabiliry of a 17ft downwind board that is only a single layer of carbon and that it it. The 2019 RS boards were a similar layup and some racers complained that the skin could puncture when hit hard by paddles, knees etc in the heat of battle when turning buoys. Long downwind boards tend to take a beating in use.

But yes, because the 2020 17ft Bayonet is not much more than a big piece of foam, it might be lighter than the full PVC sandwich 14ft RS, despite the increase in volume of around
20%. This would be unlike previous years when the UL boards have been very substantially heavier than the 14s.

That would indeed make a difference in terms of flatwater speed if you are a very powerful paddler.

I used to have a Naish 17ft board. In flatwater if I really dug deep I could get faster times on that than on my SIC X14 raceboard, which was wider. But when I put my friend, who is lighter than me and more inclined to cruise rather than beast himself, on the 17ft he was the slowest he has ever been - he was slower on the 17 than he was on a 12-6 flat water board that was 3" wider!

So, yes, it probably depends on the paddler as to whether they would be faster on the 25" wide 2020 17ft Bayonet than the 14x24.5 2020 RS. There may be just about enough extra waterline on the 17, despite the extra rocker and surface area,  to make the hull speed faster - if you have the power and technique to get it there. Most people probably don't,  at least not over a significant distance. Which is what I said originally.

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Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 22, 2020, 08:43:43 PM »

Most people would be faster on a 14ft RS in flat water than on a 17ft Bayonet. A really powerful paddler might be sble to make the Bayonet go faster, but the Bayonet weighs about 35% more than the RS, and has more rocker. Downwind ocean boards are designed to be used in the ocean, going downwind.

On the other hand  an unlimited RS would be usefully faster than a 14 in flat water, and IMO it is a great shame that there isn't one on general sale, because I wouid buy one. But racing has ironically created a situation where we all paddle slower than (probably) if racing had never existed.

The 2020 Bayonet's are only 25.3 lbs according to the SIC website (which is a tad lighter than a 14x24.5" SIC RS).

No, I think that is a printing error.

28

Gear Talk / Re: Unlimited vs 14 ft in Flat Water...Which is Faster?

« on: August 22, 2020, 05:41:07 PM »

Most people would be faster on a 14ft RS in flat water than on a 17ft Bayonet. A really powerful paddler might be sble to make the Bayonet go faster, but the Bayonet weighs about 35% more than the RS, and has more rocker. Downwind ocean boards are designed to be used in the ocean, going downwind.

On the other hand  an unlimited RS would be usefully faster than a 14 in flat water, and IMO it is a great shame that there isn't one on general sale, because I wouid buy one. But racing has ironically created a situation where we all paddle slower than (probably) if racing had never existed.

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Random / Re: A difficult read: 'Unraveling of America' in Rolling Stone

« on: August 21, 2020, 02:37:38 AM »

Yes, Quickbeam - for some time there has been a theory that it is the cruelty of Trump that attracts his supporters, so they support him not *in spite* of his cruelty (as those of us who are horrified at his amoral behavior often suppose) but *because* of it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/

Do you remember the 1976 movie The Omen? It is like Damien grew up and was elected POTUS

30

Gear Talk / Re: Looking for SUPs for a couple of lightweights

« on: August 20, 2020, 02:51:39 PM »

I guess I should have clarified intended usage. We are planning to use it mostly for casual paddling and for getting into surf supping, not looking at doing long distance paddling as much. Thanks.

Ok so what is "casual paddling"  if it isn't paddling distance and not surf? Can you describe what you envisage doing, exactly?