Topics

1

The Shape Shack / Hollow layup schedule anyone?

« on: December 06, 2017, 12:14:54 PM »

Pondering using John Lindhal’s A class catamaran one-off technique to build a viable hollow board . 14’ or longer all-water race/semi-race board. Anyone have a legit layup schedule for a high end surf ski? Should be a decent foundation to start from with tweaking from there. The cats use 3/8” 5lb corecell with 5.8 oz carbon skins inside (bias) and out (0-90). A good place to start as well.

I already made a jig for a 4.3 m cat hull and have both halves of one hull glassed on the inside with 5.0 oz Kevlar. The concept is solid. John has made at least 5 different LR  A cat designs this way with good results at the national level.

For those unframiliar with “ A” class catamarans they are 18’ long x 7.5’ wide and have an all up weight of 150lbs...that’s everything but the sailor.  Hulls, crossbeams, rudders, daggers boards/foils, mast sails and all blocks and rigging. Super light considering everything that is going on and capable of surviving pitchpoles at 20 + mph usually without damage to the hulls.

Not sure if the weight would be that much better than foam for an SUP but it would be interesting to try.

If you would like to see more on the concept copy & pasted the link below.

https://lindahlcompositedesign.weebly.com/lr5-build.html

2

The Shape Shack / Extreme V in unlimited tail, anyone see or try it?

« on: October 10, 2017, 08:38:55 AM »

The flavor of the last few years have been some pretty radical concaves. Going in the other direction has anyone seen a blocked off tail but with an ever increasing v in the tail to give a squared off tail the water release attributes of of a pintail slightly above the waterline. But still have width in the tail that engages as the board rolls slightly...

The wine glass transoms of lower speed sailboats and row boats made me think about it. Give a very slight increase in secondary stability yet a clean release.

Someone must have tried it somewhere along the line..just curious...

3

The Shape Shack / Rocker change to existing board.

« on: October 02, 2017, 11:32:15 AM »

Has anyone out there tried and had any success in inducing more rocker in an existing board? To add insult to injury the board I want to do this with it all carbon.
My head tells me it’s never going to happen as generally carbon has a modulus of elasticity of abot 1.5 so the epoxy resin (at 4.0) would cooperate but not the fiber. Anyone actually try this? If you did get any minuscule amount did it stay? Or revert back to its original curve.

Just curious if supporting the nose and tail and adding considerable weight in the center (or visa versa) letting set for a long period of time would have any effect... looking for maybe an inch increase overall...16’ x25-1/2” board

4

Gear Talk / Inflatable SUP recommendation for my daughter...

« on: June 21, 2017, 02:30:38 PM »

Daughters (adult) looking for inflatable SUP....as close to hard board performance as possible. Rides my epoxy 12-6 x29 when she paddles with me. Althletic, 5'-7"...guessing 130-135 lbs...very fit ...with decent balance, never fell off the 12-6...ever...(yoga), some kind of exercises every day....Flies all over creation with her job.

What's  the scoop? Can you give me "the baby without the labor pains"....i.e. To the point ...would she be better off with something like a Naish "one" or something from Red Paddle company? Or? Point me in the right direction....

What's a good allrounder that's not going to be a nightmare when the wind picks a little... doubt racing an inflatable would ever interest her but don't want it to be a dog either. Most paddling in ther intracoastal, although she loves the ocean (wonder where she got that from?  and will end up out there as well eventually..

Your recomendations much appreciated. Especially the ladies....

5

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Any Zoners using "Primal Damage Control" supplements?

« on: March 27, 2017, 06:35:38 PM »

I really like the info on Mark's Daily Apple...it seems like a bottomless well of interesting health/nutrition topics. Mark is about my age and we seem to have similar fitness goals of getting the best quality of life we can for as long as we can...that said...

I know some of you are, or have been paleo...have you ever ordered any of his supplements...I'm looking at at the working man version (price wise) called "primal damage control"($50 a month) ....at $130 a month his "Master Formula" is beyond what I can spend.
Have any of you guys tried it? What were your results? Is it worth $50 for a month supply or can I do 90% as well with a $10 a bottle of GNC multi vitamins bought on sale? Worth it ?or just the same old same stuff under a different label?

I've gotten a lot of good free info off Marks site and have no problem giving him my business if it worth the money...inquiring minds want to know....

6

The Shape Shack / SUPlift handle source in Florida

« on: September 26, 2016, 04:05:44 AM »

Looking for a SUPlift handle source in Florida. Need it before next Friday so out of state is out of the question.

Looked all over the Internet and every source seems to be in California & Hawaii. I don't want to pay more for shipping than the item costs for 2nd day air.
It seems bizarre that even though Brevard county Florida has a huge surf culture/ board building community I find myself buying supplies from out of state 99% of the time.

Warning....Monday morning rant.

Word to the wise...I don't care how good your handles/fins/fin boxes/ leashes/etc are...how many write ups on the web...how many pages on you website giving your life philosophy, how committed or stoked you are...how your product is the greatest thing since sliced bread...if you don't have an easily navigated web site with a quick clear path to actually buy your product, don't waste our time. Nobody likes a tease.

To those that do it right ...keep up the good work...I support you whenever possible.

7

The Shape Shack / Hydro turf patterns...best for long runs?

« on: July 28, 2016, 04:56:27 PM »

Been using Hydroturf on all my boards from the start...great grip, wears like iron, 3m adhesive never fails...I love it...for the first 3 hrs, then it gets kind of hard on the feet...I'v always used the diamond pattern and was wondering if any of you have used the flat, groved or waffled pattern...and if so...did you find it to be more comfortable while still giving the same high traction as the diamond pattern? Mainly looking for more comfort on long runs.

8

The Shape Shack / 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.

« on: July 09, 2016, 07:13:11 PM »

Well a few of us have talked about an unlimited "all water board" here on the Zone & over at Seabreeze. Something that is more versatile than a dedicated "flat water" or "downwind" board...something longer than 14 but will still work with a fixed fin.  Been toying with the idea of an unlimited for over a year. Almost went unlimited last build but defaulted to 14 instead. supuk starting his 16' downwind board was the final tipping point. Time to make it happen.

Fluctuating between 150 and 170lbs, 16' sounds like a good next step up from 14'. So far I have the rocker & plain shape hot wired out and really like the way it is looking so far.


I can only work on the weekends so it will be a slow build.
Going to try and enjoy the process on this one rather than my typical "put your head down and get it finished."

I'll try to post some pictures as work progresses but I have been having issues trying to upload pictures to the Zone...it doesn't seem to like my IPhone pictures.
If there is no picture here that's why...

9

The Shape Shack / Board bottom rocker's effect creating negative pressure?

« on: June 14, 2016, 07:23:31 AM »

Not sure if that's the best thread title for this but here goes....after listening to the FCS video and the effect of the pressure difference between the inside (flat to slight concave) surface and the outside (convex) surface of rail mounted fins...it occurred to me that the vast majority of SUP bottom rockers are in essence recreating this sinario as a board moves through the water.

 Common knowledge more rocker = more drag. On a wave, because of using the waves energy to plane, this is acceptable. On flat water this causes the convex rocker (nose to tail) to "suck" deeper into the water and increase drag as increasingly power is applied in an attempt to propell the board forward...and the shape accelerates the water over the bottom and creates low pressure.

I notice that on several race boards the latest trend is to have the first 6" to 12" slightly upsweep followed by almost dead flat to approximately 60%-70% aft of the nose...and then the remainder of the board bottom sweeps up 4-5" (in relation to the flat nose section) to facilitate clean tail release.

Has anyone here experimented with the transitioning between the flat forward section and the aft section?  I'm referring to how fast the transition is made... Think of one extreme being a constant curve with no discernible break and the second extreme of having two flat sections ( say forward section at 0 degree angle and aft section 5 degrees) with a crisp edge at the transition.

Which is faster? Maintains laminar flow and having this low pressure effect sucking you in a hole? Or having turbulent flow introduced at a more severe transition, but not suffer so much from the low pressure effect? PonoBill have any thought on this?
Seems like something very elementary that may have gone unnoticed or at least not widely talked about.

If a convex longitudinal rocker line is a major source of drag by sucking the board further down as power is applied, the question becomes how do you achieve clean water release at the tail without creating drag from nose & tail rocker?

For flat water...are we left with a perfectly straight longitudinal bottom rocker (or at least minimal curve) with the only way to deal with clean water release at the tail by way of pin tail?

Your thoughts?

10

The Shape Shack / Anyone have personal experience with 5.9 oz VS 8 oz Carbon of the same weaves?

« on: May 03, 2016, 09:32:23 AM »

Want to increase the strength on the bottom on next board without going overboard. Last one had one layer of carbon6?+ 2.3 oz glass.
One layered of 5.9 left me just a little softer than I would have preferred. Has anybody used both? What was your conclusion?

11

Gear Talk / Anyone use a Camelback H.A.W.G ?

« on: May 02, 2016, 05:25:34 AM »

Tired of having my paddles cut short because of running out of water...heard you could possibly get two 100oz bladders in one of these....any first hand experience with this one? Is it too much "pack" for the amount of hydration? What do the guys that make the inter island runs use that don't have he luxury of a chase boat to re-supply them? A single 100oz is not doing it for me in the Florida sun.

12

The Shape Shack / Carbon cloth specifics of what the yield best strength to weight for race boards

« on: April 27, 2016, 10:32:58 AM »

Anyone have specifics:
Weight per/yd & Weave type and layup schedule the top custom builders are using for their race boards that are light, but still hold up reasonably well (not egg shells).
(Non sandwich)
On my last board (26"x14') I went with 5.9 twill 2x2. One full layer 5.9 carbon on the bottom, another layer of 5.9 carbon from the tail 24" forward, with a full 2.3oz layer of e-glass to protect the carbon when sanding. Top was 2 full layers of 5.9 oz carbon twill and a 5.9 carbon deck patch that went from the tail to within 2' of the nose, and a full 2.3oz e-glass on top.

The deck has proven bomb proof , the bottom a bit too soft for my taste...although it has yet to get a ding.

I am weighing some different options.
1) Option one: Go two full layers of 5.9 on top and bottom with a third layer deck patch just in the standing area  ( with a full 2.3 oz glass layer).
2) Option two: Go one full layer of 8 oz higher density weave Carbon top & bottom + standing area deck patch (carbon).With a 2.3 e-glass cover.

No price advantage either way.

Rather than guessing it would be nice to know the industry standards.

13

The Shape Shack / Slippery bottom shape for 14'

« on: January 18, 2016, 12:23:54 PM »

With all the different bottom designs floating around out there..from flat to single to double, to triple concaves, the Starboard tunnels, V bottoms, convex bottoms and all the varieties which combine these...what bottom shape have you personally found to be both stable and slippery in a 26" X 14' race type board.

The board that made you say out loud....Wow! This thing feels like a hot knife through butter. That goes well in chop upwind, wind on the beam, downwind. What did you attributes do you feel made it paddle so well?

Parameters:
1) Not a "Rat on Acid" pace that the top 2% perform at getting their board to practically plane...
2) Relativly flat water (Intacoastal) with chop, and East Coast of Florida (not Hawaiian) open ocean swells.
3) In the neighborhood of 26" wide.
4) Paddles well into the wind (realitively speaking)

Looking for specifics, not general statements like "nice rockerline"...how much rocker? Was it near flat for 75% of the board with 1" nose kick and 4" of tail kick? If so where was the break? Have sharp rails, soft rails what was the radius?  Etc.

I developed some very effective rocker lines for windsurf boards in the past, tried most of the options available, even phasers, but SUP is a completely different animal.

My last 14 build, while it works well, didn't give me as great a boost in speed over  my 12'-6" as I anticipated. Maybe my expectations were too high. I am a bit faster over all, but I don 't have the ability to dig in and really get the 14 moving in a sprint like my 12-6". My 12-6 really rewards the  effort and takes off. The bottom shape is along the same shape single concave to V on both boards.

I was anticipating noticeably less resistance from a board 1-1/2' longer, 3-1/4"narrower with a much finer entry. The way the nose parts the water is glorious, yet there is a feeling of drag to me that shouldn't be. The board is under finned (7" Fins Unlimited longboard classic shape) and I am sure a slightly larger/better foiled fin would help...how much I'm not certain. I have a new foam core fin under construction. The design is halfway in-between a VMG 37 and VMG TT.

This is more for fitness than anything... but I'm getting board looking at the same 9 miles down and 9 miles back...over and over again...want to cover more ground in the same amount of time...and the less resistance I'm fighting against, the better.

Things  on the forefront to change...
   More tail rocker (1-1/2"-2") in the last 42" (marginal at the moment on the 14') to get better tail release so I can move back on the board and still have a good clean minimum wake. Take 1" of nose rocker out of the first 18" so I can engage the wave piercing nose sooner, and from father back on the board.
   Fill out the hips in the out line slightly.
   Pull in the square tail width 1"-1-1/2".
   Take 1"-1-1/4" thickness/volume out of the board throughout. Way more volume than I need at 150-160 lbs.  Should help in weathercocking in wind on the beam.
   A little more rail tuck but still keep a hard edge for clean release. Lowering the center of gravity should help compensate for increasing tuck in rails (effectively compensate for loss of stability due to reduced bottom width).
    If I stay with single concave, deeper concaves closer to the nose to introduce more  air under the bottom when standing forward (going up wind), as it transitions from V/double concave the first 2 feet to single concave.
   I am more inclined to go with a double concave from nose to tail to help with straight tracking and reduce strokes per side (single concave seems to work against this).
   

If it were not for the enhanced tracking aspect of the double concave, I would be tempted to go with a simple flat bottom with a slight V in the tail...it sure worked great for windsurfing. Less is sometimes more.
After trying a dozen or more bottom configurations with my windsurf boards, the fastest ones inevitably ended up having dead flat bottoms with slight V in the tail.

Please share your experiences. What was The magic board for you? What made it so? Always looking to take it to the next level. Always more to learn. The more detail the better. Thanks to all that participate....

14

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Typical time per mile?

« on: January 01, 2016, 09:17:27 AM »

Flat water, some chop, wind 5-10 mph...1/2 into wind ...2nd half with the wind. I don't paddle with any other SUPers so not sure if I'm slower than snail snot or it just such a radical let Dow speed wise from hp windsurfing?

Never mind...should have looked one thread below before posting....

15

The Shape Shack / Most effective NACA foil shapes/numbers for SUP find?

« on: December 23, 2015, 04:29:02 AM »

What NACA foil shapes are working best for SUP fins?

Which are favored for racing?

Does the foil shape remain constant as the cord length changes with the profile?

How are they making cored fins (wood/foam/nomex) and still getting proper flex?..espresislly using carbon skins...that still have decent flex properties...are they using uni-directionally?

Do the top 10 racers use broad based fins to maximize strokes per side and let their skil overcome poor turning attributes  ...or a somewhat narrower base fin to maximize maneuverability at the buoy turns? For instance are they using something like a VMG Mako 37 (broader base) or VMG Mako 35 (moderately narrow base)?

As some of you live in Hawaii you see these guys & girls and theirs innovative stuff every day. Always interested to know what they actually use rather than just what their board sponsor ships with the stock board. Especially interested in what the Naish team riders use since the chatter on the Zone and Seabreeze has replacing the stock fin as one of the first thing to do in order to optomise the Javelin.